Member Discussions

XIAIX is seeking Area, Creature, and Item developers as GMs
(Game Masters). No need to know 'code', as all creation
utilities are either web based or performed via in-game
commands. XIAIX is a C++/MySQL custom code base.

If you've got a flare for creative thinking and can put into
words creature, item, and area descriptions, we're looking for
your help.

Thank you.

I'm interested in helping you build, Zyre. Drop me a line...

Please navigate to the following:

http://www.xiaix.com/staffapplication

All applications will be considered.

Thanks.

"If you need time off for any reason we are very flexible. We
do require that we be informed in advance, and if your
vacation will impact your ability to meet your development
deadlines, we should be notified well in advance. Be prepared
to help out on a holiday or two because XIAIX does not shut
down for them."

Do you need permission to go to the bathroom too?

That is a bit harsh for a hobby MUD, well that's if it is one. This seems like a pay for play MUD where all the imms are paid(hopefully). Being an imm on a MUD is volunteering, plain and simple. You sign on when you have time, not every night because you HAVE to...

I'm sorry, but your application is ridiculous. All of the stress of a real job and
none of the perks. Could you make the "job" sound any less appealing??

Hrm...

To apply as a member of staff, you submit an extensive application form, then wait. If they're interested, they'll contact you to arrange an interview. Should you pass the interview, they'll send you a set of documentation and a briefing, and you'll begin your probation period. At the end of your 90+ day probation you have to take a test to demonstrate your proficiency.

You're expected to be online several hours per day, more when there are events. If you need time off for vacation, you have to inform them in advance.

You don't receive any monetary compensation for your work, because the mud is "currently operated at a financial loss to its owner".

However when you submit a request to be a player (which I didn't, because I refuse to give my real name and email address just to play a mud), you have to select one of the following subscription levels:

Level 1: Free (i.e., peasant mode)
Level 2: $5.99 per month (and a 10% discount on event prices)
Level 3: $9.99 per month (and a 20% discount on event prices)
Level 4: $13.99 per month (and a 30% discount on event prices)
Level 5: $17.99 per month (and a 50% discount on event prices)

By comparison, my mud (which is fairly greedy for resources) has a hosting cost of roughly $13 per month. So it does make me wonder how many paying customers they've got, if they're operating at a financial loss - when I checked their website just now, it said there were no players online, but perhaps I caught them at a bad time.

I do think they could really benefit from lowering their entry barrier, both for players and staff.

By comparison, my mud (which is fairly greedy for resources) has a
hosting cost of roughly $13 per month. So it does make me wonder how many
paying customers they've got, if they're operating at a financial loss - when I
checked their website just now, it said there were no players online, but
perhaps I caught them at a bad time.

CEO salaries don't come cheap.

This looks more like an application for a paying job than an
application to be a staff member on a recreational game. Way
too much unnecessary personal information required just for
the chance to build something. Unless you're planning on
paying staff, I don't see any legitimate need for half of
the information required. The heavy amount of reading prior
to even getting to the application is a huge deterrent as
well. Why so much bureaucratic red tape for something that
is supposed to be a leisure activity (read as: fun)?

Don't get me wrong. I hope this works out for you. I just
think the whole application process here is a bit over the
top. If not for the draconian application process and
constricting time requirements, I would have been happy to
look at your world and ideas and possibly help flesh it out.

You have to keep in mind that even though you consider it a
privilege for someone to admin on your MUD, it is also a
privilege to have that someone as an admin. Not true in
every case, but there are still some of us out there who
enjoy practicing the art of world design.

You have to apply to become a player? This place must be the
most wonderful mud on the planet, where do I sign up?

Please navigate to the following:

www.SS-Gestapo.com

All applicants will be chained and beaten.

XIAIX is a C++/MySQL custom code base.

This game also appears to be a stripped-down version of CircleMUD in which the author does not display any credits in the login sequence and has deleted the in-game credits... thus violating both the CircleMUD and DIKU licenses. Not to mention the pay-for-play option clearly does the same.

However when you submit a request to be a player (which I didn't, because I refuse to give my real name and email address just to play a mud)

You do realize that you're one of the few posters here whose names are already common knowledge?

Drizzt1216 wrote:

However when you submit a request to be
a player (which I didn't, because I refuse to give my real
name and email address just to play a mud)

You do realize that you're one of the few posters
here whose names are already common knowledge?

It might be the principle of the matter more than anything.
Or perhaps when he plays a new MUD, he doesn't want to be
recognized.

Hades_Kane wrote:
It might be the principle of the matter more than anything. Or perhaps when he plays a new MUD, he doesn't want to be recognized.

Yes, both. I suppose I could just have created an anonymous email account, but I honestly couldn't be bothered. Maybe I'll do it at some point though, to see if tingonic is correct.

Maybe I'll do it at some point though,
to see if tingonic is correct.

I created an account just for that purpose and have to admit
it honestly doesn't stand out as being Circle derived to me.

Doesn't even particularly appear to be DIKU derived, though I
have no doubts that DIKU is what the coder was most familiar
with rather than LP or MUSH/MUX/MOO/MUCK, etc. based on
several of the commands (not to mention that it specifically
mentioned DragonRealms).

I created an account just for that purpose and have to admit
it honestly doesn't stand out as being Circle derived to me.

It appears almost all of the circle commands and text have been stripped. However, if you check out the bad password in the login screen...

The character [XXX] has been recognized in our database.

Please enter XXX's password:
XXX

Wrong password.
Password:
XXX

Wrong password.
Password:
XXX

Wrong password... disconnecting.

The above strings are verbatim to CircleMUD's
interpreter.c, ~line 1400 http://www.circlemud.org/pub/CircleMUD/3.x/uncompressed/circle30bpl21/src/interpreter.c -

write_to_output(d, "Wrong password... disconnecting.\r\n");
and
write_to_output(d, "Wrong password.\r\nPassword: ");

The character [XXX] has been recognized in our database.

Please enter XXX's password:
XXX

Wrong password.
Password:
XXX

Your account is active, loading your character options...


Welcome to


.XX XXX XX
.XXXX. XXXXX XXX,
XXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXX
XXXXXX, XXXX,XXX .XXXXXX,
. XXXXXXX ,XXX. XXXX ,XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX, XXXX. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXXX:
,XXXX XXXX XXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXX XXXXX
XXXXXXXX. XXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX
XXXX. XXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXXX
XXXX XXX . XXX XXXX XXXX XXXX . .XXXX XXXX
. XXXX XXXX XXX XXXXX . XXXXX XXXX . . XXXX XXXX
XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX
XXXXXX . .XXXXXX
XXXXX . . XXXXX
XXX XXXX
XX XX
X

Created by David M Dunn (david@xiaix.com)
Copyright © 2004 - 2011 XIAIX.com. All rights reserved.






XIAIX NEWS & ANNOUNCEMENTS CAN BE FOUND ON OUR FORUMS

www.XIAIX.com/FORUMS




4 LOGIN FAILURES SINCE LAST SUCCESSFUL LOGIN.

Welcome to the world of XIAIX! Perhaps this is the day to re-write history.


[Five Point Square, Rocinu] (etc...)

You will find the code for the 'X LOGIN FAILURES SINCE LAST SUCESSFUL LOGIN.', which echos right below the MOTD screen during the output of the same CON STATE, in interpreter.c as well, around line 1440. Again, this is written verbatim to CircleMUD, in fact this very line is demonstrated in the old CircleMUD 2.0 'press release'. You can read that about halfway down this page: http://www.circlemud.org/general.html

Mr. Dunn, it appears you are claiming copyright on code that is not yours. I can only imagine the backend (socketing, nanny states, game loop, etc) code is all or mostly CircleMUD stock. You've done a very good job at obfuscating it. Plus I imagine of the thousands of MUDs that are started, only a few handful contain totally original socketing code. With the above evidence, the odds seem against you that you are the sole author of the code.

Bad password similarity is the best you got?

That's weak evidence at best. Circlemud doesn't own the code
for bad password write ups. There's only so many ways you can
tell someone the password has failed.

Bad password similarity is the best you got?

Yep.. it's the first thing I noticed.

That's weak evidence at best.

It's still evidence.

Circlemud doesn't own the code
for bad password write ups.

It owns the above code I linked to and demonstrated exists on Xiaix. Stock circle allows three login attempts before disconnection & syslogs and records the last bad logins and displays them exactly in that manner in the exact same place (below motd) that this MUD does. The wording in these strings is exact down to the spaces.
I don't want to douche on this game; it's obvious the author has put in a ton of time and work, and I certainly hope his endeavors are rewarding. However, in both the pay-to-play offer and credits removal, this is pretty much a violation of the entire license by which the software may be freely used, and I feel it is important to the community here that this is known. I'm not interested in digging further to find additional evidence or cause grief.

Bad password similarity is the best you got?

The fact that it's a long verbatim phrase, down to the choice of all-uppercase, makes this pretty strong evidence in my book. I would venture that nobody would open a stock codebase just to lift one line if they are writing their own code from scratch. I would further venture that if you told that phrase to a room of 20 people and asked them to type it in, no two will write it exactly the same way. No, this has a clear feeling of a CircleMUD re-skin where someone hasn't stripped all the evidence yet--this particular line being very easy to overlook. Anyone feelin' otherwise?

I'd say, check back in a few weeks' time. If the developer changes that line, the evidence will go from strong to solid.

I'd have to agree, didn't spot much ingame, but the incorrect
password messages having the exact spelling, punctuation, etc.
seems more than just a coincidence.

Interesting opinions, mostly non-true accusations, but interesting
nonetheless.

Let me address the "custom" code base issue first:

I realize it's hard to believe that there are intellectually sufficient
coders out there to design and implement a custom MUD code base, but
truthfully it's not beyond the realm of possibilities. I am in total
agreement and acknowledgement that a custom code base, written entirely from
scratch, is very rare to come across, especially in these days.

Granted, most of you that have been around for a long time are numbed by the
hundreds (if not thousands) of stock code revamps. I know that I am, but I'm
not saying at all that I'm better than they are or that my product is
superior in any way. My product is, .. well simply, not "stock".

XIAIX is indeed 100% custom. Allow me to define "custom" though. By
"custom", I refer to every single line of code that powers XIAIX. I am not
claiming to have exclusive "custom" ideas or concepts, but by "custom" I DO
mean that the XIAIX game engine is not a reincarnation of another code base.

Having explained what the XIAIX code base is and what it is not, I will also
tell you that many years ago, I believe back in 2001 when I started dabbling
with online text based games, there was someone that turned me on to LP MUD.
I studied it for a while but eventually realized that I didn't care for the
code base at all. I was then turned on to CircleMUD by reading a bb post of
a friend. Circle was okay. I dabbled with it for about 6 months and even
had that friend convert it to be compatible with C++. Circle, to me, wasn't
what I was looking for and I eventually shelved the project. Having been a C
coder since the age of 13 (since 1986), I decided to take a crack at this
whole "MUD code base" myself. With a lot of advice from fellow coding guru's
and a couple of years later, XIAIX was born.

Yes, XIAIX is a custom code base. Yes, from dabbling with other code bases
and playing many, many MUDs, there is no doubt that certain verbiage from
other games may reside in XIAIX. However, the actual code to run and/or
display that text is "custom", plain and simple.

If people feel the need to scrutinize the password fail attempt verbiage
within XIAIX, so be it. Just because it looks like a duck doesn't mean that
it was born or even quacks like a duck. To that end, I have changed the
offending password attempt verbiage. Why? Because if it's such a
contentious issue that people feel the need to keep logging in just to see if
it's changed so they can say, "A-ha! I knew it! I now have proof!", I may
as well settle it now. Another reason I changed it is because it needed a
face-lift anyway.

I can't (nor do I want to) change people's opinions. Think XIAIX is not
custom? Okay, your opinion. Think it's a severe hack of CircleMUD? Okay,
your opinion. Think it's custom and everything I said that it is? Okay,
again, your opinion.

Simply put, I'm not here to offend, rip-off, steal, bash, or troll. I nicely
stated that XIAIX was looking for developers in certain areas of the game
and, if interested, one could submit a staff application... which leads me to
the second point of this post...

The XIAIX Staff Application issue:
Because XIAIX is a custom code base, the way in which GM's interact and
develop items, creatures and areas is not like most builders have
experienced. Trust me, I have had many people submit applications that I
have approved and once they step foot in the game as a GM, they start
attempting to perform many tasks they "think" is standard. There is a LOT of
training involved for new XIAIX staff. The training can be exhaustive but is
extremely effective and rewarding.

Also try to put yourself in my shoes... you custom create an entire MUD that
has over 100 active players (some paying accounts and some free). You pay,
out of your own pocket, over $150 every month to keep the server running.
You put in over 5 hours a day of code to further enhance/improve the game
that you've been running for the past 8+ years. Now, you get someone that
wants to have full database and game code access to your MUD so he/she can
muck around and pretend he/she is code god. Ummm... no.

Have I been burned before? Yes. Am I fair? Yes. Do I seriously have time
to loosen the reigns and make the application process less intensive? I
probably do, but I have years of experience that tells me if a person is
truly interested in helping for the right reasons, they'll have no problem
filling out the application and waiting for a response. Does this mean that
applicants have been sincere and been approved to only find out that a few
weeks down the road they turn out to be a very bad fit for a XIAIX staff
position? Absolutely, yes.

Any MUD admin/staff/builder position has its challenges and/or learning
curves. Not everyone fits all available positions. There are many well
intentioned would-be builders out there that, quite simply, make an
outstanding and interactive player, but just can't (or won't) function as a
builder.

For me, for XIAIX, the staff application process works. All I can say is
that if you don't like it for whatever reason, don't fill it out.

Summary:
My request for help within XIAIX is not drama. We are, by human nature,
drawn to drama though. So it is no surprise to me that this thread is what
it has become. I can only control myself and my actions/words. I can only
state my opinions. I am also under no illusion that this post too will not
be sliced/diced/criticized/laughed at/pondered or simply trolled. This is a
public forum. Anything and everything goes. Having stated the obvious, I
await any responses.


Thanks for your time in reading.

I think Kavir owes you a big apology.

Don't know about apologies but maybe KaVir can post that link explaining what derivative works
are. From what I've seen and read so far, it's quite possible that ZyreXiaix may learn something
he doesn't know at the moment. For instance, he may realize that if you take networking code
from CircleMUD and convert it to C++, it still carries the license, even if everything else
around it is 100% custom.

That's just a speculation. Basically, I don't have the time or the inclination to hound anyone.
But so far the signs are not good. Protestations aside, the verbatim CircleMUD line was changed
(with little explanation as to how it got there in the first place). And while I agree that
running a MUD is a huge investment of time and effort, the dev should consider that there are
hundreds of others like him, who match his investment, yet charge nothing. While we will likely
never know if there's any derivative code used in this project, the dev knows. If the answer is
yes, there's no way to justify a pay-to-play model. If the answer is no, then there's absolutely
no need to post any lengthy explanations here.

Although he runs his game leaving a lot more $$ in his pocket
than I do, KaVir, from what I've read and re-read, has not
assumed, hypothesized, or criticized any part of this thread to
date. He's quite simply made a few observations and pointed out
some obvious facts. In my opinion, out of all the comments thus
far, KaVir would be the least likely in needing to apologize for
anything.

I'm certainly not seeking an apology from anyone, and if I were,
I'm astute enough to know that I'd be barking up the wrong tree.
What's been said by others here has been said out of concern and
quite honestly an all-too-familiar claim by new (or old hat)
coders that their code is custom. I get it. Been there done
that sort'of thing.

As I've stated in my post above, I feel everyone has the right to
their own thoughts and opinions, and in a venue such as a public
forum, the right to post those thoughts and opinions to whomever
will listed (or read). God knows I've done my fair share of criticizing and calling a spade a spade, never once to even fancy
the thought of offering an apology. Would I ever personally
apologize for constructive criticism? Probably not. Would I say
I'm sorry for making an assumption based on a hypothetical
conclusion that turned out to blow up in my face because I was
simply dead wrong? Again, probably not. Now, would I offer an
apology if I bad mouthed or slandered someone's idea or claim
without having absolute proof-positive evidence to back up my
rant? Yes, I would. None of that exists here though... so far.
No one has slandered me, beaten me, kidnapped my kids or torched
my house. Anyway, I'm getting off course.

Thank you though, Jodah, for taking the time to read my above
post and providing your feedback.