Member Discussions

I was looking at the front page and trying to visualize it from a new player perspective, someone that has no idea what a MUD is. The site is likely not very helpful to them, it is a collection of obscure terms, lists of games that are not readily apparent as being such, etc ...

I want to add a prominent section or link towards the top that is just for people new to MUDs, something that screams LOOK HERE TO GET STARTED.

I think using the fmud client is the best way for TMC because it doesn't involve any setup - I realize there are flashier ways to play ( pardon the pun ) with triggers and configurable event handlers, etc but until a player is more familiar with what it is going on they need to be able to get going quickly. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE fmud and am so glad we switched to using it for TMC and its getting a ton of usage at all hours of the day!

So I'm thinking about making a short but sweet page with some common mud commands, describe the process once they connect and use some kind of random mud picker to grab a connection link, etc ... I want to make sure the mud they connect to has a good track record of being reachable and has a decent population as it'd be a bummer for them to get into the MUD and find 1 player on. One bad or boring experience and they may never try another MUD. The page will be linked on the front of TMC by some largish text addressed just to new players.

Love to hear suggestions, right now if I was new to MUDs Im not sure I'd now what to make of the ste.

-Iccy

I think that's a great idea and there are a number of
promising muds that can fit the bill and have good newbie
starter experiences.

A clear starting point would definitely be good.

One approach I think may be useful would be to detail a bit about MUDs with regards to graphical MMOs.
Of course, not everyone has played a graphical MMO or is intimately familiar with them, but you name
drop Everquest or WoW or something along those lines, and there's a higher chance of some sort of
connection or understanding to be made; something they may already be somewhat familiar with in order to
relate.

Something detailing that the modern graphical MMO games like World of Warcraft very much have their
roots in the type of online, multiplayer games called MUDs, and that very many similarities exist, with
the major differences being that most MUDs have a smaller number of people playing them which makes for
a more intimate and personalized experience, and that most MUDs are purely text based.

Obviously, bombarding a new MUDer with a ton of information might be a bit intimidating, so a balance of
how much to give them vs. how much to leave for their own discovery would need to be figured out, but it
may also help to make a few generalizations about MUD types, specifically give them an idea of the types
of gameplay they might expect from a MUSH vs. MOO vs. MUX vs. MUD. Generalized terms like that might be
easier to grasp rather than trying to break it down by codebase, even if they are generalizations and
may not be 100% accurate.

I can tell you now, I had logged into a MOO or a MUSH right out? I wouldn't have probably given the
hobby a second thought. The first one that I logged into, I found out you couldn't actually fight
anything? That was probably the quickest self delete of my entire MUDing history :p Giving a player
some expectation and helping direct them to the right type of game from the outset would probably help.

Along with a short list of generalized terms and commands, it might also be beneficial to give them some
expectation of how to access a MUD's rule file, explain that 'newbie' is a generalized (and usually non
offensive) term for someone new to a game, that many games have specific newbie helpers, newbie
channels, and the like, and maybe a reiteration on the rules file, with the explanation that the
communities and social circles of many of the games vary considerably at times, and many MUDs have
different policies and expectations that makes it a good idea to familarize yourself with each policy of
each MUD.

Generally, lowering the entry level barrier like you are talking about I think would be good, but I
think further than just the technical aspects of them, helping a new player understand some basics that
we take for granted like the differences in the types or that different MUDs have different rules would
help as well.

As a newbie myself once on Gemstone III, I didn't understand kill stealing was actually a bad thing, nor
was emoting "*CENSORED*s in the corner" at the time either :p

specifically give them an
idea of the types of gameplay they might expect from a MUSH
vs. MOO vs. MUX vs. MUD.

That's a good point Hades. Mud commands can vary greatly
between codetypes. If you do have a list of starter muds, I
would suggest sorting it by gameplay. Combat oriented
players may not be interested in a rp mush and vice versa.
I would also suggest keeping explanations or tutorials brief
and then make the exciting gameplay of "what you can do with
a mud" the main focus, although I acknowledge some tutorial
will be necessary.

I first discovered muds from a magazine article describing
the first 10 minutes of gameplay from a new player. I
didn't get hooked because "this is how you type 'gossip' or
this is how you 'sleep'". I got hooked because the
description of the gameplay made it look exciting and
different.

I don't like admitting it but I also think starting new players on a MUSH or MOO might not help them, I still at times feel like I am entering a very unfamiliar terrain but this is likely because my focus has always been diku-derived games and games that share that kind of playstyle. If there is a diehard MUSH or MOO person reading this and you want to help write up a portion that could get a new players' feet wet in that environment I would certainly want to include it - but as Hades mentioned brevity will be best, overloading them with a ton of new concepts will kill their spirit. ;)

I will make use of hideable containers on the page so when they first look it appears there is only a bit of info and as they click more info will unhide, hopefully after getting their attention and interest.

-Iccy

You know I'd say just a more prominent usage of the existing one could be a great start, currently its sitting under the contents tab as 'Mud Intro' but having its own mention on the main page would be enough to get the ball rolling.

Perhaps with a small rewrite to mention how TMC has its own built in client and a direct link to connect using it to any mud listed here, which I think is very effective and takes a lot of the learning curve right out of starting up as a first time player.

I think this is a really great idea.

One suggestion: if we want to draw in players who have never done any kind of rpg gaming, a good idea might be to use something they already are familiar with as a hook.

For example I often bill our mud not as a mud, but as an interactive novel where you can become a character and write it as you go.

To me this helps people new to the genre see it through a lens they understand (everyone has read a book) which makes it easier to pick up and absorb other new terms, rather than just being overwhelmed with concepts and terminology they have no basis for understanding.

I'm not sure how I could help with this but I would love to get involved if there is something I can do :)

Perhaps with a small rewrite to mention how TMC has its own built in client and a direct link to connect using it to any mud listed here, which I think is very effective and takes a lot of the learning curve right out of starting up as a first time player.

I'm going to do a pretty severe rewrite of the page, but using the client will definitely help cut out much of what I had to spend details on in the first version written many many years ago.

I will post a link tomorrow when I have it ready for you folks to check and make sure I didn't leave anything important out or offer suggestions if anything could use clarification or re-wording.

*woot*

-Iccy

I'm not sure how I could help with this but I would love to get involved if there is something I can do :)

Yep, would love feedback and suggestions for once the initial draft is up. I think it'll be easier having a rough draft ready to be critiqued / modified /extended rather than pooling ideas from a number of different sources and then compiling them into the document. We'll find out anyway - should have a link tomorrow!

Thanks!
-Iccy

I am looking for suggestions for muds to connect these new users to, I will make a script to randomly choose one but here is the base criteria I am looking for:

1. The mud should always be populated and preferably have some history but I wont overlook newer MUDs if they meet the other criteria.

2. The mud should be known for its newbie friendliness ( eg have imms or players set to be new player helpers )

3. The mud should not have a steep learning curve apart from what is considered somewhat standard command structure. I'm looking for muds that wont scare away players.

4. The mud should have a good reputation among the community, that is no muds which are widely considered to have license violations or power-crazy imps and staff.

5. The mud should be a combat-oriented game, though it can also be RP-centric -- RP alone may be a draw.


I'm going through the DB trying to make a list but I'd love your suggestions.

Thanks,
Icculus

Kavir, would you consider God Wars II to have a learning curve that is too advanced for someone that has never tried a MUD? Its one of the muds I am considering and I'd love to hear your thoughts ...

-Iccy

Icculus,

I think AA would be a good candidate for this. I believe we fill all five of your requirements. We've also worked to make sure we have a lot of the common mudding commands from other games aliased, so transitioning to/from other games shouldn't be too hard.

-dentin

Alter Aeon MUD
http://www.alteraeon.com

Icculus wrote:
Kavir, would you consider God Wars II to have a learning curve that is too advanced for someone that has never tried a MUD?

No, but it has a steep learning curve for people who have played other muds. Veteran mudders often have too many expectations and make too many assumptions about the way things work, so they ignore the tutorials and help files and then get confused.

Newbie friendliness might be an issue. Although polite newbies usually get assistance, there are no rules or official helpers, so the players feel no obligation to tolerate stupid or rude comments. Those expecting a cloistered newbie experience are likely to be in for a rude awakening. On the other hand, it does at least mean you can play freely and speak your mind without fear of the ban hammer looming overhead.

God Wars II is also a PK mud, so it's probably not going to appeal to the thin-skinned anyway. But if you're looking to promote a selection of different style muds then it could certainly cover the competitive PvP angle pretty well. Then you could recommend something else for roleplaying, another mud for quests, perhaps some specific themed recommendations (such as Star Wars, DBZ, etc), and so on. Is that the sort of thing you've got in mind?

Thats the direction I was leaning toward, giving them a selection andthen choosing one of a few muds for that type. I can add a note for the PvP mud types to explain the scenario ...

Thanks!
-Iccy

I think AA would be a good candidate for this. I believe we fill all five of your requirements. We've also worked to make sure we have a lot of the common mudding commands from other games aliased, so transitioning to/from other games shouldn't be too hard.

How would you categorize it? Its hard to tell from the tmc listing...

-Iccy

If we're doing type/theme recommendations, I REALLY wish EoT was just tad bit further in
development/being established, because I think we would cover Final Fantasy / Console RPG
pretty well, with a mixture of PVP, RP, and Hack n Slash... but I couldn't in good
conscience recommend my game just yet :p

Maybe by the end of the year, I can see about trying to get in on that.

Unfortunately, I haven't been active on enough other MUDs to really recommend anything.
Ivalice stands out as a MUD I've played that's similar in theme to mine, but it's been
years since I've been active there and can't really vouch for a whole lot with it in
present day. I know sometimes, it would be frustrating waiting for someone to validate
your name, description, or background. But otherwise, it was a fun game with plenty to
do.

I would love for Dark Risings to be included.

It's an RP/PK mud, with a gothic fantasy setting.

We are very newbie friendly and have a guild devoted to helping new players, a good newbie school, and an area of miniquests designed to help new mudders/players learn the game/genre without feeling like a basic tutorial.

If we're doing type/theme recommendations, I REALLY wish EoT was just tad bit further in
development/being established, because I think we would cover Final Fantasy / Console RPG
pretty well, with a mixture of PVP, RP, and Hack n Slash... but I couldn't in good
conscience recommend my game just yet :p

Well go ahead and get it done already, whats it been like 10 years now? *hehe* Just kidding of course, take your time and do it right, the list we start with can always be tweaked over time! I'll look into Ivalice for now and also check into Dark Risings Sidonie!

Thanks,
Iccy

(Comment added by Icculus on Thu Apr 26 11:37:35 2012)

Wanted to note I'm also evaluating AA for the list as well ...

I have a first draft for you to look at, for whoever is interested. Please try to put on your newbie hat, am I using terminology thats not explained well enough, is it too detailed, not detailed enough, should I expand on anything specifically? The Connect button at the end just returns back to page, it will unhide the next section with a list of options for what type of mud to connect to (RP, sci-fi, fantasy, PvP) and then choose one from a smallish list for each type.

The new player page is at: http://www.mudconnect.com/mud_for_new_players.html

Thanks,
Iccy

The first page is terrific, in my opinion.

I think the second page is well written and very clear.

One thought is that it's a lot of text and, at least on my screen, small. It's all good information but it might feel overwhelming to someone not used to text gaming.

Another, and maybe I'm wrong here, but, don't -most- muds have a newbie school of some sort that teaches this exact same information? If that is the case (and again I'm not sure if it is), having it here as well might be a little redundant. Maybe the part about how to connect should be the focus point? That is one thing muds don't teach (in my experience anyway) that new mudders would definitely need right off the bat.

How about Dragonball Evolution? There's at least 10-30 players online, we have multiple Imms online all day that are willing to help newbies. DBE has been around for almost 10 years now without any changes to ownership. Learning DBE is quite easy considering it plays very much like a Diku MUD. I may not have the best reputation with the people on these forums but I'm a lot different on my MUD. Either way, it would be nice to see an anime MUD on this list.

In the effort to attract fresh blood, I would exclude games that require sort of approval process before the player can actually play and those games that don't have a website.

While there are valid reasons to have an approval process it is a barrier to new players.

And also, while not all web sites are equal, having a web site provides a common ground for players who are new to text based games.

I would consider including a little bit more:

-Concept of global channels as someone might make the mistake of trying to speak to the MUD full of
people by using the say command, based on what you have so far, and think they are being ignored;
letting someone brand new know that there are usually ways of communicating to the entire game like a
chat room might be beneficial

-Concept of what you mean by "room" and how the game, overall, is like a series of thousands of
isolated rooms (kinda like chat rooms) that contain their own description of what is there and what is
in the room. And that it is within -these- "rooms" that the say channel works and you can physically
interact with other things in the game

-Concept of a who list, so they can determine the name and basic information of other players
currently, and how many. This would help with the 'tell' information and other stuff like that.

Mostly a little bit more to help clarify what is already there and help minimize the chance for
misconceptions there. It's a good start thus far, and my girlfriend, who has never played a MUD
before, I'll ask her to take a look at it and offer input, so we can have a total newbie perspective.

I would suggest adding a bit more information on the first
page relevant to what muds actually are. Referencing MMORPGS
was a good idea, but I think you might need a bit more
delineation between a MMO and a MUD, otherwise you might
have players assuming that they will be connecting to
something resembling a popular MMO. Granted the second page
offsets this with a description of returned text, but I'm
not sure if the "lack of graphics" is explicit enough. I'd
say nine times out of ten, people completely new to mudding
are turned off by the lack of visuals, so spelling that out
seems crucial to me.

I would also advise adding a bit at the bottom emphasizing
the accessibility of muds. Speaking as a blind player, you
might find an increase in traffic if you advertise muds as
something that are readily accessible and functionally
equivalent to MMOs. On that note, I'd advise ensuring the
muds placed in the random selection list are accessible. So
far the proposed muds, to my knowledge, are fairly
accessible, notably Gw2 and Alter Aeon.

Another, and maybe I'm wrong here, but, don't -most- muds have a newbie school of some sort that teaches this exact same information?

Probably, but I cannot see the type of people I am trying to appeal to even being able to get that far, they'll see the first screen dump full of text and flip out and go to another site that has flash games ( like fragger ) - if we don't give them at least a few tools under their belt, commands that they know they can use right away I can see the learning barrier being overwhelming.

It is alot of info, perhaps we can prevent it from being overwhelming by hiding the details of each command, let them click to see more about the help command, etc ...

eg help ( button that says click to see how to use the help command )

that hides most of the info until they are ready to unhide it - would that help you think?

-Iccy

(Comment added by Icculus on Thu Apr 26 14:12:27 2012)

Hades: I also added a section about what we meant by a room - good call. I am debating something about channels but I think they may be outside of the scope for this, I really just want to get them into a MUD and have them learn the rest inside the mud through help and mud helpers. I want to keep as much out of it as I can while making sure there is just enough for them to get in and communicate with the game/players.

(Comment added by Icculus on Thu Apr 26 14:18:41 2012)

Hades: Also added a section about who, thats another good one and ties in good with the concept of using say and tell to get help. Thanks again!