Member Discussions

I'm hoping to find something similar to Rom, that can
compile clean with Ubuntu 8.04.

Robert, might try QuickMUD (I'd use the one with color and notes etc), or.. we're working on RaM on MudBytes.com. Basically a revamping of the RoM stuff, just with everything fixed and updated.

1stmud was ok, but I think QuickMUD was a better go at it.
If you're worried about running out of rooms you can use the Unlimited bits version. Although, if you plan your building out, chances of running out of vnums with 32.6k available is low. My own game started in 96 and has about 20k rooms accounted for, although there are 'gaps' in some areas.

What GCC version is on the machine? That'll affect almost any base as the define's location in files is more strict in the latest GCC.

What GCC version is on the machine? That'll affect almost any base as the define's location in files is more strict in the latest GCC.

Yes, that's the real issue here. ROM will compile on any version of Ubuntu, it's the version of the compiler that would be causing any issues. I'm not incredibly knowledgable when it comes to ROM, but if you can type: 'gcc --v' and get the GCC version number I should be able to hopefully install the same version and try to get ROM to compile on it for you if for some reason you'd prefer that over RaM or QuickMUD. (I see no reason to choose RoM over RaM though since to the best of my knowledge RaM is to RoM as tbaMUD is to CircleMUD which is to say it's mostly the same but more polished up and actively being maintained.)

I have to recommend my own server, it has been developed for almost 17 years. https://sourceforge.net/projects/nimud/

I have to
recommend my own server, it has been developed
for almost 17 years.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/nimud/

Yes, Locke, we know that you like suggesting
your MUD server to everyone that even looks
vaguely interested in MUDs whether it fits their
requirements or not. Your codebase is not at all
a RoM derivative and as such is believe it or
not, quit likely, not what he is looking for. I
could have suggested tbaMUD too if my aim was to
be as biased as possible but I recognize that
CircleMUD and RoM appeal to different audiences.

> Your codebase is not at all
a RoM derivative

That's true, ROM was first being developed at the same time NiMUD was being developed, so ROM actually borrowed many of its features from NiMUD (OLC, a few other things).

Both are derivatives from Merc/Diku, so they have a similar structure and feel. I don't feel it's that off base.

I just released a new version with copyover/recover, full featured "hot" spell creation and crash-recovery features.

(Comment added by Laerrus on Wed Feb 25 22:07:57 2009)

I'd like to add that
a) he said "similar to Rom" which doesn't mean "Rom or Circle"
and
b) we're still not sure who the "we" is you are speaking of

b) we're still not sure who
the "we" is you are speaking of

Anyone who knows you. You repeatedly have posted over the
years that NiMUD "was THE most advanced codebase in
existence" when it does absolutely nothing revolutionary.

a) he said "similar to Rom"
which doesn't mean "Rom or Circle" and

I'm fairly , 100% actually, positive that I stated that
CircleMUD and RoM appeal to different audiences and as such
CircleMUD would not be close enough to RoM. Things I would
consider to be "similar to RoM" would be any of the numerous
RoM derivatives including but not limited to: RoT, DoT,
Sunder, Ember MUD, Oblivion, VUM, Anatolia, etc. NiMUD is
derived from Merc 2 whereas RoM is an earlier derivation of
Merc 1 (which makes me laugh at your claims that RoM took
ideas from NiMUD, as RoM predates NiMUD and if anyone
tookideas you took them from RoM). But I suppose you like
rubbing your ego wherever possible going as far as claiming
that because you call yourself Locke and SE named a
character Locke in FF VI that it was thus named after you.

I don't know who you are, but you're wrong and asserting fallacies.

1) NiMUD and RoM appear at the same level of the Diku family tree.

2) NiMUD does things no other MUD does, which are advanced features and not available in other softwares.

3) NiMUD and ROM grew up together. Russ Taylor was a MUD neighbor. Whenever a new version of Merc would come out, Russ and I would upgrade it. My first attempts to improve Merc started in 1992: NiMUD was developed on the same servers that served the Merc Industries website.

4) NiMUD is where ROMolc came from.

5) The MUD persona Locke was a Wizard/Thief -- not to mention the legendary co-author of OLC -- if you don't see the similarities between Locke and FF's Locke, then you really should seek help.

1) NiMUD and RoM appear at
the same level of the Diku family tree.

Wrong, family tree of DIKU as pertains to NiMUD and RoM.

RoM:

Diku Alfa -> Sequent -> Copper 1 -> Copper 2 -> Merc 1 ->
Rom 1

NiMUD:
Diku Alfa -> Sequent -> Copper 1 -> Copper 2 -> Merc 1 ->
Merc 2 -> NiMUD

RoM predates NiMUD.
NiMUD was publically released December 31st 1993, RoM 2.3
was released earlier that same year with Rom 1 coming even
before that.

2) NiMUD does things no
other MUD does, which are advanced features and not
available in other softwares.

The same can be said for most every codebase in existence.
Even if it couldn't I've never seen you make a list of these
"advanced features" so much as making vague generalized
claims that they exist.

5) The MUD persona Locke was
a Wizard/Thief -- not to mention the legendary co-author of
OLC -- if you don't see the similarities between Locke and
FF's Locke, then you really should seek help.

Get over yourself. You're not the "legendary" (in fact
you're relatively unknown, pick any MUD community, $20 says
I'm more well known in it than you are and I'm not the one
claiming to be "legendary") anything. The OLC was almost
entirely written by Woodward and not by you. The OLC is
surely not "legendary" either, both Oasis OLC and Ivan's OLC
are more widely reputed than the system used in NiMUD.

Well, not trying to contribute more flames to a budding flame war in this hijacked thread but there IS misinformation being spread. NiMUD in no way, shape or form should claim or be claimed as an inspirational work for ROM. In fact, I tend to think that claim would greatly insult Alander.

As Drizzt mentioned, ROM 1 is based off of Merc 1.0 and ROM 2 is based off of Merc 2.1. The work for both obviously predated NiMUD. Further, Laerrus mentions "ROM OLC" as one of the points of interest in this debacle. But readers should note that an OLC was never, ever a part of an official release of ROM...from 1.0 to 2.4b6. It was merely a snippet tossed around on the Merc and ROM mailing lists.

I don't take my information from wikis or urban legend, I was "there" playing and implementing muds in the early 90s. I am proud to have contributed to ROM (even being listed in the credits - imagine that), invited to contribute to Envy, tutored a bit by Furey privately when I was a laboring, clueless 1st year CSI student, and I also remember Holly releasing NiMUD publicly on the Merc Mailing List after Surreal had passed. It is suprising to me how much incorrect information is kicking around today.

So let the facts stand where they may because it's important to give credit where credit is due. Misinformation doesn't help anyone. I have original, unmodified releases of most notable Diku and derivatives, downloaded and preserved pre-1995 for anyone who is interested in furthering this discussion.

Additionally, the Diku guys (and gal) have done a pretty good job recreating the family tree on their site if anyone cares to have a look. In this tree NiMUD is referred to as TheIsles.

http://www.dikumud.com/family.aspx

Cheers.

Further, Laerrus mentions
"ROM OLC" as one of the points of interest in this debacle.
But readers should note that an OLC was never, ever a part
of an official release of ROM...from 1.0 to 2.4b6.

Quite true, of the three main DIKU derivatives (RoM, SMAUG,
Circle, and yes there are more but those are the three most
popular) only SMAUG had OLC. There are Circle and RoM
derivatives further down the tree that included OLC (ie.
RoT, Sunder, DoT, Envy all do include OLC to the best of my
knowledge) but neither Circle or RoM itself included it.

> Well, not trying to contribute more flames to a budding flame
> war in this hijacked thread but there IS misinformation being
> spread. NiMUD in no way, shape or form should claim or be
> claimed as an inspirational work for ROM. In fact, I tend to
> think that claim would greatly insult Alander.

Interesting coincidence that you should mention that. Yesterday I was looking at the MUD Wiki (mud.wikia.com), and I noticed the NiMUD entry claimed that "It's world generation code was influential in the design of Godwars and Godwars2 by Richard Woolcock." Suffice to say I removed that bit of fiction.

Likewise, Thoric had to remove the following line from SMAUG's Wikipedia entry a few years ago: "It is also of note to mention that SMAUG's area file format, it's editor, via a seperate port/clone of OLC, is borrowed from NiMUD."

Regarding dates, Merc 1 was released 18th December 1992, ROM 1 started development in early February 1993, and ROM 2 started in July 1993. The Isles 1.0 was based on Merc 2.2, which was released in late November 1993. The first version to contain OLC is dated 10th August 1994, although there's no records of it being publically available until 1995.


(Comment added by KaVir on Fri Feb 27 11:35:54 2009)

Also a worthwhile read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-01-24_Online_Creation

The OLC is surely not "legendary" either, both Oasis OLC and Ivan's OLC are more widely reputed than the system used in NiMUD.

Well this much is true
TheIsles OLC -> ILAB OLC -> Ivan's OLC

OLC was not "entirely written by Woodward" -- far from it. Chris hasn't worked on the project since 1994 and if you go back to those early versions, you'll note that.

Ivan's OLC is a complete rip of Isles OLC, with all of the credits removed.

As for your "legendary" crap, way to compare d!cks. You're just jealous.

>> I don't take my information from wikis or urban legend, I was "there" playing and implementing muds in the early 90s. I am proud to have contributed to ROM (even being listed in the credits - imagine that), invited to contribute to Envy, tutored a bit by Furey privately when I was a laboring, clueless 1st year CSI student, and I also remember Holly releasing NiMUD publicly on the Merc Mailing List after Surreal had passed. It is suprising to me how much incorrect information is kicking around today. <<

Holly didn't release any versions of NiMUD. She wrote a file called "NIMstarterkit.txt" and that was the extent of Holly's involvement.

Furey wrote me to ask if they could use OLC for Envy. Of course, with attribution, they may!

Anyway, I don't need to argue with the peanut gallery, especially those bullies who come 'round every time I post.

I'm disappointed in the MUD community, it seems that the same douchebags keep showing up to hassle me and I've even confirmed that someone BOUGHT A DERIVATIVE OF NIMUD for $200 as "EmlenMUD" FROM OWEN EMLEN-- this is really the lowest blow and the biggest pain caused by this community, next to the original hacks I experienced.

I love how the author's words are completely ignored in light of egotism and contributory, non-factual arguments about something which you don't own, didn't write and know little about. Aside from the enjoyment of knowing OLC contributed greatly to generation 2+ muds, providing artists with a means by which they could express, it has not really been worth it.

Aside: who the hell plays ROM 1.0?

Well, thanks for coming by to encourage smoking and insult an open source developer. Though you are right: Ivan's is a complete rip-off of ILAB/Isles.

I will not be replying to any other posts about this; I do not need to defend myself and waste any further time here. Direct your insults to /dev/null and enjoy working up a cardiac infarction on your own time, because my poor ailing heart can't take it and, furthermore, no matter how devious your slander, I refuse to continue to deal with the irreputable utterings of slanderous Tyche, kaVir and anyone else who wants to join ranks with the daft, bulldoggerous and juvenile.

B=> (your mouth)

Laerrus,

Asssuming you're Locke (which theoretically you might not be,
despite seeming to be trying very hard to sound like him), I'd
like to mention something. Indulge me for a moment.

I'm not a Diku person, and really could not care less about
the stupid little bitchslapping and screeching that occurs
over who invented what little aspect of which little codebase
on which date. I mean srsly, YAWN.

So please note I have no dog in this hunt, I just happen to
occasionally stumble across the debris left in your wake.

And in my capacity as an occasional stumbler upon this
debris, I'd like you to know that your behavior leaves
people like me, disinterested casual stumblers-upon, with
the impression that you are either a maniacal liar or an
utterly delusional loon. Or both.

I'm going to, for the purpose of argument, assume that
neither one of those is the case. I'm going to assume that
my perception is in error, and you've simply failed to
express yourself well. Given this assumption, I ask you to
rethink your approach to these matters, because at present
your approach does absolutely nothing to advance the
interests you appear to have. At best you are wasting your
time, but more likely the results of your efforts are
counter to what you seek.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net

Laerrus:
...and anyone else who wants to join ranks with the daft, bulldoggerous and juvenile.

Laerrus:
B=> (your mouth)


Yeah...

OLC was not "entirely
written by Woodward"

I didn't say it was. I stated verbatim that it was "almost
entirely written by Woodward". Removing that almost changes
the meaning quite drastically.

As for your "legendary"
crap, way to compare d!cks. You're just
jealous.

Intentionally bypass Andrew's profanity filter again and it
will be the last post you ever make on this site.

as for being jealous of you, not a chance. I am jealous of
no one in this community. I do on the other hand respect
several people in this community. Three of those people,
KaVir, Tyche, and Cratylus posted in this very thread. You
are not one of the people in this community whom I consider
to be worthy of my respect.

Well, thanks for coming by
to encourage smoking and insult an open source
developer.

Flaming morons (read: you) is not encouraging smoking. KaVir
is an open source developer, so is Cratylus, so is Tyche, so
am I. Please stop playing al high and mighty, half the
posters on this site are open source developers. Being one
doesn't put you somehow above being criticized.

I refuse to continue to deal
with the irreputable utterings of slanderous Tyche, kaVir

Yeah, damn those 'facts' They don't paint a pretty picture.
Better defend yourself by calling them slander. Sadly I
think you believe the lies coming from your mouth. Sadly we
aren't as delusional as you are and thus don't buy the oral
diarrhea you're emitting as being factual.

(Comment added by Drizzt1216 on Fri Feb 27 20:22:53 2009)

Also as for KaVir and Tyche's comments being "irreputable
slander" they're quite likely the two members of the MUD
community with the highest reputation's.

Ivan's OLC is a complete rip of Isles OLC, with all of the credits removed.

Every version of Ivan's OLC I've seen has all the credits intact.

Well, thanks for coming by to encourage smoking...

My pleasure. This if for the kids.

Holly didn't release any versions of NiMUD. She wrote a file called "NIMstarterkit.txt" and that was the extent of Holly's involvement.

Furey wrote me to ask if they could use OLC for Envy. Of course, with attribution, they may!

If this "NIMstarterkit.txt" file in question was written on or about June 10, 1996 then we are speaking of the same event. Except that Holly posted to the Merc Mailing List announcing what she had done and offering up the info doc and a download to NiM. Her "README_1.0" of which I have a copy was written in response to inquiries about where to obtain a copy of the code base and more importantly what to do with it once you had it.

IIRC, the source was hard to find, the appropriate documentation for it even harder to find. I consider her offering the link to download the source as well as her own documentation a legitimate offering, especially in light of it not seemingly being readily available at that time. However, if you wish to argue the semantics of it that is fine. I recognize that she was not an original developer of the source but she was certainly its greatest advocate in the heydey of the Merc Mailing List.

My original post in this thread was, after all, in response to the claims being made about ROM.

As for Furey, his involvement ended with Merc 2.1. He was not involved in Merc 2.2 or Envy. But you knew that.

I understand better now that there is little fact finding and much personal agenda being pushed here.

As for Furey, his involvement ended
with Merc 2.1. He was not involved in Merc 2.2 or Envy. But
you knew that.

Strangely, I'm not sure he did know that. In my experiences
with Locke he almost comes across as a compulsive liar who is
so delusional that he no longer remembers the truth correctly
anymore from so many years of lying to others and himself.

Furey, Hatchet and Kahn were still talking then. To say he had nothing to do with 2.2 is a lie. Go jerk off in a corner or something, it's probably more interesting.