Member Discussions

Let me lay out the scenario first:

A player is well known to be having a very 'serious' in game relationship with a sysop. They're running around game and finding public but not-often visited make out spots all over the game and they're often seen alone on the who list (which shows the locations of players). It's a well known fact and they've even admitted what they're done. Some are rather upset because sometimes they meet alone in restricted areas that gain her some points by her simply being there over time.

If that's not un-ethical enough for you, let me continue. While performing my in-game duties the other day I ran across this same player in a rather precarious position in a public place with yet another sysop. It was an area of the game that was somewhat restricted based on a few in game factors. They weren't expecting me to waltz in and I sure wasn't expecting to see the both of them there (she showed up on the who list but the sysop didn't).

As a player who clearly sees all of this philandering with players as a major ethical issue, what would you do about it?

If you were a head admin/owner on this game, what would you be doing about it?

It certainly can't be right for a player to be rolling in the hay with staff. Even if there weren't any favortism going on, all the players would think there was.

(Comment added by HeraAthens on Wed May 17 11:16:50 2006)

EDIT** Sorry about all the typos and gramatical errors. I shouldn't post when I'm aggravated, heh.

If you were a head admin/owner on this game, what would you be doing about it?

Getting some too.

As a player who clearly sees all of this philandering with players as a major ethical issue, what would you do about it?

Apply for a staff position, so I could get some too.

It certainly can't be right for a player to be rolling in the hay with staff. Even if there weren't any favortism going on, all the players would think there was.

Players always think there is favoritism. Even when you aren't screwing them.

It could be worse, I recall a scandal at a rather well known commercial mud involving players 'performing' on webcam for a particular admin. And people complain about pay for perks......

"It could be worse, I recall a scandal at a rather well known commercial mud involving players 'performing' on webcam for a particular admin. And people complain about pay for perks......"


But why would anyone complain about that? I thought most people thought play-for-perks was the best option...

cron0s, you could at least try to post something useful.

As for dealing with them....do what needs to be done. Explain to them what they are doing is wrong and needs to stop. Favoritism causes a lot of problems on a MUD and an immortal shouldn't encourage it by doing whatever he is doing with that player. Make up some rules if you have to or demote that immortal for his actions. I seriously doubt that immortal that he was doing something good considering he was attempting to hide.

Also cron0s...go out...see the sunlight...get a real girl, they are a lot better than your cyber buddies.

'As a player who clearly sees all of this philandering with players as a major ethical issue, what would you do about it?'

Either ignore it, make fun of them, post notes about it, or complain to the immortals.

'If you were a head admin/owner on this game, what would you be doing about it?'

One of my MUD rules:

6. No offensive behavior/speech in public rooms or public channels.

This would violate that rule, so I would take action. If this MUD doesn't have a rule against cybering, then they aren't doing anything illegal, just very rude. But as an Admin, I would tell them to take it to a private room, or instant messaging. We have a system in place to where players can buy a small collection of rooms to be their home, aka player housing. I would tell them to buy a house and do it there. Maybe suggest something similar? Or, if this is a big enough of a concern, I would build, in an out of the way location, a sleazy motel where you could 'rent' rooms or whatever, and it would only allow two people total in the room, so that way they could behave however they wanted in private without any concern for anyone interrupting them, and so other players wouldn't stumble across this. Or if somehow they did, they pretty much knew what they were in for going in that location.

There are also marriage systems on various MUDs that give the 'couple' a private channel. They could behave however they wanted on their own private channel as well.

There are plenty of ways to make sure that no one will stumble upon their activities.

'It certainly can't be right for a player to be rolling in the hay with staff.'

That's really in the eye of the beholder. Considering I was a founder of a particular MUD, then one of the other founders (she also was the one that was providing shell access) and a player 'hooked up' and I ended up being pushed out and royally screwed over as a result of a lot of events that followed, I would be inclined to agree. But, I wouldn't make it illegal or anything unless they started actually cheating in some manner, then I would probably demote the immortal to a level they didn't have the commands to show any favortism, or fire them. No matter what, players will think an immortal is showing favortism to SOMEONE, and while this may give them a little bit more reason to think that, that's just a fact of MUD life.

Personally, unless they're having cybersex in the middle of public channels its really no one's business who is datings/having relations with anyone else.

Hera, how would you feel if it was 2 players? or 2 immortals? Would you care? Speaking from personal experience, I was an immortal for a long time and my now wife was just a mortal, and even prior to our engagement, had knowlege of my immortal activity. Was their favortism? no. Did I assist her char(s) with quests, etc? no. Did I occasionally sneak off into a rarely used room and ravage her? yes. Did people on rare occasion catch us? yes. Did anyone truly give a damn? no. Why? Because they knew enough to leave people's PERSONAL lives alone.

As the old axiom says, you cannot choose who steals your heart and replaces it with theirs.

As a player, you should discuss this either with the immortal involved, or with the head immortal. Tell them of your concerns of seeing it in public. Suggest it be taken somewhere more private. Or you could instead choose to ignore it and understand that by "listening" in, or walking in on their private time, you could be construed as a peeper. If that person is on, avoid the areas they're in, because they might be having sex with their significant other.



(Comment added by kingarthyr on Wed May 17 15:40:02 2006)

BTW, as an owner of a MUD, if I were to catch a staff member and player getting busy with each other, I'd yell at them for doing it in public, and ask them to be slightly more discreet, as there may be childen on the mud, otherwise, I personally wouldn't give a damn if they were having sex while floating upside down in a reverse gravity trap and she was using some of the spikes as a means of DP. I am not a prude and I REFUSE to involve myself in the private lives of my staff or tell them who they can and cannot date.

If I caught the immortal assisting the mortal, THEN and ONLY then, if there is PROOF would I or anyone of my staff be allowed to interfere.

Sorry to say it but cybering is sick and an pathetic excuse to get some online. Cybering is for AOL chat rooms...not a respectable MUD. A MUD could be considered your home in a sense if you own it...so would you want someone having sex in your house? Eh...it's not right and shouldn't be done on a MUD unless that MUD allows it. From my knowledge a lot of MUDs don't allow it and if the original poster's MUD calls it "Inappropriate" I seriously doubt they should be told to take it somewhere private in the MUD. Almost all the little freaks who cyber usually try to cyber every player of the opposite sex they come in contact with. They don't care who it is...as long as they can get some online action. Cybering should not be encouraged at all on a MUD that deams it "Inappropriate" and yea as you can tell I don't like cyberers. If people want to cyber, take it to AIM, Yahoo or some other chat service, keep it off a MUD where you play and hopefully respect the owner.

Quoth HeraAthens:
'As a player who clearly sees all of this philandering with players as a major ethical issue, what would you do about it?'

I don't agree that player-immortal textual foreplay is a major ethical issue.

'If you were a head admin/owner on this game, what would you be doing about it?'

Observing. And probably offering pointers based upon my superior experience.

'It certainly can't be right for a player to be rolling in the hay with staff. Even if there weren't any favortism going on, all the players would think there was.'

Flawed logic. Reality includes many examples where the staff keep their noses perfectly clean and player charges of favortism are rampant. Since player complaints are usually irrespective of fact, they should be ignored.

I'm going to guess your counter argument just to move things along...

Fake quote:'Well shouldn't you do whatever you can to avoid even the appearance of favortism?'

No. Appearance of favortism is my number one 'harem babe' recruting tool. Of course, once they earn my attentions retention is not an issue.

I'd flat out just can em.
If they want to cyber on morts, keep it private and all that fine, but using the imm is like a cop getting a BJ from a hooker. Get caught, lose the badge.

On my own place there's a rule against cybering, purely due to the fact that there ARE kids that play the mud, and adults, and that mix would bring the mud in the middle. No thanks.

I agree with Kingarthur 100% Just tell them to keep it private as long as there isn't any actual assistance of the mortal. If you try to interfere with the private lives of your imms, you will limit the amount of people that would be willing to work for you.
As for Darkozx: I never cybered myself, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it. I think you are underestimating the percent of mudders who do cyber and probably just turned off (no pun intended) a large chunk of potential players.

"As a player who clearly sees all of this philandering with players as a major ethical issue, what would you do about it?"

-Go invis, then sneak into the room. Log it. Almost to the "climax", I'd ooc something to the effect of both of them giving me pleasure, then "oops, wrong channel!". I'd then proceed to advertise the fact that I have logs, and send them to anyone who wants them. Imm or no, if I catch you cybering, you're screwed -proceed to cackle diobolically-


-cackling dies down after a moment-
"If you were a head admin/owner on this game, what would you be doing about it?"

-I'd tell them they need to find a private, lockable room and keep such things there. I couldn't care less what you were doing, but as long as you keep it out of the public eye in all respects, it's fine. I'd also point out that there are instant messenger systems. I'd then tell the immortal next time I see him doing anything innapropriate in any public place (aka, anywhere but the immortal zone or a locked room), they'd be demoted and lose thier ability to use emote and pmote.


It certainly can't be right for a player to be rolling in the hay with staff. Even if there weren't any favortism going on, all the players would think there was.

-Yeah, I'd frown upon that. But, as long as it was kept private, I wouldn't bother them. Favoritism always has, and always will exist. Players are always going to be suspicious and jealous. I'd just leave them alone though. Except for when they do something stupid, then... it's wizi/incog/log/email time...
-cackling ensues-

I think the most practical thing to do is not overly concern yourself with the issue, especially when it's probably a bunch of men pretending to be women, cybering other men. If you find it distasteful or somehow 'unfair' (snicker) then save a few logs and send them to the highest authority possible, outlining potential protocol breaches in relation to the MUD's known policies on the issues. Other than that, do you REALLY want to involve yourself in the flabtabulous, m4m mudsex affairs of others? Sounds like a resounding 'no' to me.

Sometimes we see things done in 'public' which we find a tad bit distasteful.

Sometimes we like to tell ourselves that the stupid slut that slept her way to the top is going to get AIDS and die.

Sometimes we like to tell ourselves that every MUD is an even playfield, where everyone can grow up to be a doctor, lawyer, or even mudsex admin some day.

Sometimes we just need to wake the hell up.

If the 'relationship' is as well known as you claim it is, then a blind eye has probably already been turned to it. As such you may want to consider it your prerogative to avoid involving yourself any further with the situation, or find a more...pristine...MUD that is worthy of your patronage.

--Ben

I think a lot of these replies are based from an owner/admin/IMP perspective .. and yes i knwo that is how it was phrased, 'If you were a head admin/owner on this game...'
As an IMP I *insist* that all my imms create and actively play a mortal character (to keep them in the loop and give them first hand knowledge... clueless immortals irk me), if they wanna do any cybering it should be with the mort char.

I think looking at it from the original poster's point of view, there may be a feeling of unfair advantages, '...in restricted areas that gain her some points by her simply being there...'
... now *THAT* I would address as I think pretty much any serious mud has something about cheating in the story/helps/imotd/wizlaws/etc.

Reading between the lines on the initial post (what i woudl be doing if this was a 'issue' brough to me on my mud:
--'A player is well known to be having a very 'serious' in game relationship with a sysop'
... makes it sound like relationships are okay, as it is deemed serious and also as general/commonplace knowledge .. oif the mud has cybering then it has cybering no problem there.
--'They're running around game and finding public but not-often visited make out spots all over the game'
Later on you refer to the person as being in a restricted area.. so it isnt truely true that they go around finding public places. Maybe you are just good at finding them. It sounds like they are trying to find places where people arent there, they change location and they are (by your own words) 'not-often visited'. If who shows location then OBVIOUSLY they arent trying to hide, they are just lookign for a wuiet room.
--'It's a well known fact and they've even admitted what they're done.'
.... so what is the problem, you know, they know we all know .. who has the problem .. if it is just you , maybe you need to com to terms with it or pose it as a problem aith something else (like unfairness/advantage/etc) and not as the general relationship between them.
---'Some are rather upset because...gain her some points by her simply being there'
... two things, .. how many poeple are upset/affected by these to cybering peeps, (already mentioned that the last quoted bit does sound like cheating, dont know all the facts though)

--'While performing my in-game duties...'
.. i was curious about this when reading it, because you write it as a player, but then you mention you have duties ... are you just a player, do you have an imm char, are you the owner/imp?


--'... all of this philandering with players'
... how big an issue is this? is the imm doign it do all the mort females? seems a little generalized, not sure though


--'As a player ...what would you do about it?' ... try talking to them, then 'note to Admin', talk to a different admin, then 'note to immortal' (in that order if i felt there were serious issues and my request/complaint/etc was being ignored. if i felt badly enough i would simply leave the mud, find a new mud-home.

--'If you were a head admin/owner on this game, what would you be doing about it?'
... (i think this post in its entirely kinda covers it)

--'It certainly can't be right for a player to be rolling in the hay with staff.'
... that is kinda contradictory to the statement that 'It's a well known fact ...' ... I think it is either acceptable on THAT mud or it isnt. .. which one is it.

--'Even if there weren't any favortism going on, all the players would think there was.'(sic)
... is this the real crux of the matter, do you thik the female that the imm is cybering with is getting an unfair advantage? This i woudl address as an admin, .. if i knew more about the mud, wizlaws, acceptance of cybering, what was and wasnt cheating etc.

I think there are fine lines between one mud's acceptance's and the general public's view of ethics, ... muds are virtual and some pople do use them to escape form reality or be in virtuality things they cannot in reality ... it is life.


(please excuse my typos, etc rather than flaming me about them, i know i am not an ACE typist)

If I scared off any potential players because I hate cybering, good. I don't want any cybering freaks on my MUD in the first place. They will just be made a fool of in public when caught. We have a special list that all cyberers are put on when caught. Cybering should not be done on any MUD that isn't themed for it. A medievil, star wars, pokemon, dbz or any other theme should not have cybering on it. What good does cybering do? None in my opinion. I don't care if you are 500 pounds and have a pimple filled face, you can still find a girl in this world that will love you and you don't need to start your search on a MUD where you don't even know if that player is a girl or guy. No one knows for sure and it usually causes problems when the rumors start about that player's sex. Cybering should always be punished unless that MUD's theme allows it.

Ok, I'll give you DBZ and Pokemon but medieval muds? People didn't have sex back then? You also seem to think people cyber because they can't "get any" in real life. That's not always true. In fact, I once met a guy who cybered like crazy with any woman who was willing and he probably has had more rl girlfiends than I have.

And there is something wrong with that guy. Some people are addicted to sex and it's quite sad. And I seriously doubt any of the cybering you will find is following the medievil theme, they are probably typing like a bunch of AOL idiots and totally forgetting about the MUD they are on. Either way, cybering is stupid and a waste of time. There is no way in hell I will support any form of cybering, so there is no point in attempting to change my mind or arguing with me.

I won't rehash what's already been discussed before, but I do have some questions.

It is interesting to me that people are just fine with a game that focuses around killing, or that cursing is alright, but the moment sex is mentioned it is regarded with a great deal of disdain and dare I say it? Ridicule?

I personally do not have a problem with cybering as long as it is done in a private place on the mud. While that isn't something I look for on a mud, I've certainly done my fair share of it. What really intrigues me, though, is how liberal some admins are with the snoop command. My very first mud was one where the players would be prompted on whether or not it was alright for you to snoop them. This was usually done to check skill discrepancies or to try to weed out bugs. Of course, the trustees were able to snoop at will, but I would like to think that it wasn't something rampant. I served as an immortal on that particular mud for quite some time.

When I was an imm on a star wars mud, I was amazed with how much was logged and how willing and far some others would go to snoop someone else. Now, of course, playing on a mud is a privelege and not a right, etc etc blah blah blah. But really, if someone wants to snoop a player only to interrupt a sex scene, is it really any of that imm's business? I personally will not stay on a mud where the staff get their kicks off of snooping players for grins and giggles. I have also been the unfortunate recipient of ridicule. I can remember being in a rather intimate scene with someone and the staff member snooping it, although I had no idea at the time. The next thing I knew, my emote was posted on the ooc channel for all to see. I wasn't embarrassed as much as I was incredibly angry, and needless to say, I didn't stick around.


Now, the original issue. I, too, dont' see anything wrong with the situation save the fact that it wasnt' done in a private area. But I don't think it's something to become upset about unless there is indeed some cheating or abuse happening there.

Take care.

Jali

"If I scared off any potential players because I hate cybering, good. I don't want any cybering freaks on my MUD in the first place."

You sound almost phobic about it, almost like you've had a bad experience with it. Did you find out that you were cybering with a man one time? Don't get me wrong, but I've never cybered either, I think it's ridiculous, but you seem to have an extreme aversion to it. Despite your feelings about it, is it really necessary to insult people, calling them "freaks" who do it?

"They will just be made a fool of in public when caught. We have a special list that all cyberers are put on when caught."

Now, it's perfectly up to you if Cybering is illegal on your MUD. That's fine, I have no problem with it. If people break your rules, you have the right to punish whatever way you see fit, so I'm not debating that, however...

"Cybering should not be done on any MUD that isn't themed for it. A medievil, star wars, pokemon, dbz or any other theme should not have cybering on it. What good does cybering do? None in my opinion."

You are entitled to your opinion about what should and shouldn't be allowed on your MUD, but I don't really feel you are entitled to try to say what should and shouldn't exist on other MUDs. If two people are completely secluded, then what they do or say or emote between them is just that... between them. What good does it do? It's a form of roleplay, and if two people will go through roleplaying that, then when they aren't in private, then there's a good chance they'll contribute other, more meaningful forms of roleplay to the overall play of the MUD. Besides, if they are doing it in private, they aren't hurting anyone, and that's more players. I wouldn't isolate an entire (and larger than you think) chunk of players based on some personal bias.

"I don't care if you are 500 pounds and have a pimple filled face, you can still find a girl in this world that will love you and you don't need to start your search on a MUD where you don't even know if that player is a girl or guy. No one knows for sure and it usually causes problems when the rumors start about that player's sex."

I find the whole gender confusion very funny, and it does take a high degree of trust that someone is the gender they say. But regardless of that, it is roleplay, and technically your character is interacting with another character, it's not so much player to player. At least, not in my mind. Also, cybering doesn't equate with a relationship, so not everyone on there is trying to cyber to find a life mate. It equates to another form of pornography as far as I'm concerned. Trying to say that "you'll find someone to love you..." in reference to cybering is like saying pornography is useless because you'll find someone to sleep with you... regardless of how much someone is getting, that doesn't mean they don't enjoy looking at a set of (insert whatever body part you enjoy looking at here). You don't know what a specific person is trying to get out of their experience, so I really don't think its fair for you to judge it. Besides, I have a friend that has been trying for YEARS to get a girlfriend, and has yet to succeed, so don't tell me that EVERYONE will find someone in real life.

"Cybering should always be punished unless that MUD's theme allows it."

Again, you are trying to dictate what MUD should allow what. That's like saying: "PK should always be punished unless that MUD's theme allows it" or that botting should always be punished, or cursing, or any number of things. Just because YOU have some personal bias against that doesn't mean that every other MUD except for "Sex MUDs" should punish two people privately talking. What two people do in a private room or over a private channel is honestly none of my business, and it shouldn't be any of your's either unless they are harming someone/something. I don't like people cybering, and if I catch someone in public, they get punished, but I'm not going to invade people's privacy and tell them what they can or can't do when no one is looking, unless it's harming someone else.

I could just as well reason that you allowing cursing on your DBZ MUD, which is aimed at children, is wrong. Because when you have a 9 year old logging onto your MUD, do you think they're parents would appreciate having their child playing a game where they are exposed to very crude, nearly unregulated language? I could go so far to say that cursing shouldn't be allowed on any MUD that may be targeted toward children, but I'm not going to tell you or anyone else what should or shouldn't be allowed on your MUD when it really isn't going to harm anyone else. The racism debate in another thread was different, as those are words of hate and can, do, and have been used as tools to harm people for decades. Cybering doesn't harm anyone, especially when it's kept private.

"And there is something wrong with that guy. Some people are addicted to sex and it's quite sad"

Again, you are being overly judgemental.

"Either way, cybering is stupid and a waste of time"

I agree, but don't you think its as big, if not a bigger waste of time trying to catch people doing things in private when it's harming no one else?

"There is no way in hell I will support any form of cybering, so there is no point in attempting to change my mind or arguing with me."

I'm not personally suggesting anyone support it, but I don't think it's right to be invading people's privacy.

I think the problem most people have with cybering is that it's just, well, sad.

"It is interesting to me that people are just fine with a game that focuses around killing, or that cursing is alright, but the moment sex is mentioned it is regarded with a great deal of disdain and dare I say it? Ridicule?"

I couldn't agree more! I think this is a symptom of how western culture is in general, not just MUDing. How ridiculous is it that it's ok for our children to walk into the living room and see people getting shot, blown up, dismembered, etc. on prime time TV, or seeing actual dead bodies on the 6:00 news, but the moment a 40 year old woman shows a distant, brief view of her nipple, the whole USA comes down like a hammer on what is shown on TV? I think we have our priorities in this country WAY off. Sex, a naked human body, this when done between two consenting people harms absolutely no one, and is a very natural, and often times beautiful act between two people that is supposed to happen. Sexuality, the human form, this isn't an anomaly, something to hide from... I think violence is the anomaly, that should be what we protect our children from. 99% of people that reach adulthood will eventually experience sex, it's natural, it's inevitable, but the violence we see on TV constantly... that's something that hopefully none of us will ever experience in our life.

"But really, if someone wants to snoop a player only to interrupt a sex scene, is it really any of that imm's business?"

Again, I agree with you. If you are offended by cybering, and you snoop a player that is engaging in that, then you asked for it.

"I have also been the unfortunate recipient of ridicule. I can remember being in a rather intimate scene with someone and the staff member snooping it, although I had no idea at the time. The next thing I knew, my emote was posted on the ooc channel for all to see."

If cybering was against the rules, then you pretty much asked for it. While I sympathize and think that such a level of "punishment" is a bit extreme, if someone breaks a rule, then they can be subject to whatever punishment the admin thinks appropriate. Now, if that's not against the rules, then that admin was just being a jerk and that is the exact opposite of how an admin should treat his players.

"I think the problem most people have with cybering is that it's just, well, sad."

While I do agree that it is sad, I don't think that means it should just be outlawed, hunted down, and punished when it's not hurting anyone.

One other thing I forgot to comment on... I can see issue with the immortal doing it with his immortal character. My general policy is that immortal characters are to be used for the purpose they were created for, and cybering isn't one of those purposes. That Immortal should create a mortal character, take it to a private room, then there's no reason for anyone to complain. Especially if the who list shows people's location, and if it is as common knowledge as has been said, then if you see those two people in a specific location, alone, then you know to avoid that room.

ROFLMAO!!!
Am I the only one that find that this even warrants a post on TMC completely insane???
Truely?!?
I mean come on, get out of these folks business and let them have their fun. And the issue with one of the people being an immortal?? My God, so what? If that particular Imm is so untrustworthy that he can't have sex on a mud without people thinking he might have to pay for it, then should he be an immortal at all? God Grief Charlie Brown!

(Comment added by admnHello on Wed May 17 22:39:42 2006)

>You sound almost phobic about it, almost like you've had a >bad experience with it. Did you find out that you were >cybering with a man one time? Don't get me wrong, but I've >never cybered either, I think it's ridiculous, but you seem >to have an extreme aversion to it. Despite your feelings >about it, is it really necessary to insult people, calling >them "freaks" who do it?

Hahaha, Good one Hades!


(Comment added by admnHello on Wed May 17 22:40:22 2006)

>You sound almost phobic about it, almost like you've had a bad experience with it. Did you find out that you were cybering with a man one time? Don't get me wrong, but I've never cybered either, I think it's ridiculous, but you seem to have an extreme aversion to it. Despite your feelings about it, is it really necessary to insult people, calling them "freaks" who do it?

Hahaha, Good one Hades!

Hi there:

Earlier, you said..


If cybering was against the rules, then you pretty much asked for it. While I sympathize and think that such a level of "punishment" is a bit extreme, if someone breaks a rule, then they can be subject to whatever punishment the admin thinks appropriate. Now, if that's not against the rules, then that admin was just being a jerk and that is the exact opposite of how an admin should treat his players.

I should have made this clear in the post. I follow the rules of a mud, and there wasn't anything stating that cybering was not allowed. It wasn't in a public place and it certainly wasn't hurting anything, except maybe my reputation when it was posted on the ooc channel. But live and let live, or something.

Even if it was something against the rules, I hate the idea of publicly calling someone out to humiliate them, but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax that I might post about some day.

I am also reminded of another experience, and while I won't go in to too much detail, it is a bit disturbing. About three years ago, I really had no clue of what roleplaying was even though I'd been doing little things to try to build a character. I was trying a new mud that was roleplay-enforced and was incredibly intimidated by having to immerse myself in to a completely new role. This mud is a permanent death mud, and there was the one bad apple that decided that rape was a viable form of rp without discussing it OOCly with those that he/she roleplayed with. So, here I was, a new player and trying to get a grasp on the game while this other player was going through extremely graphic acts of sexual torture with a scalpel and I honestly had no idea of what to do. I didn't respond and just kind of sat in my chair with my jaw dropped. Welcome to the world of roleplaying.

I believe that is part of the fear that people have concerning others cybering on their mud. While people may not envision the scene that I described above, the fear that you are going to get some sick and twisted internet stalker probably does strike a chord with people. Making matters worse, an immortal dropped link right after this player finished the rp with my character, which implied that such things were acceptable behavior and encouraged on that mud. Dare I call it RP? I was just sitting in front of the computer shaking. There is a saying that when you know better, you do better. I'd handle the situation much differently than I did back then. Anyhow, these are just ramblings.

This thread has been a very interesting one and it is fascinating to see the views that are posted.

Jaliya

"I should have made this clear in the post. I follow the rules of a mud, and there wasn't anything stating that cybering was not allowed. It wasn't in a public place and it certainly wasn't hurting anything, except maybe my reputation when it was posted on the ooc channel. But live and let live, or something."

Then that guy was simply being a jerk, just as I said. People like that have no business running a MUD.

"Even if it was something against the rules, I hate the idea of publicly calling someone out to humiliate them, but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax that I might post about some day."

Again, like I said before, that was a bit extreme. I, personally, would not try to humiliate someone on my MUD. There is no need. I try to handle most matters in a private manner, but if someone is a repetitive rule breaker, or people just don't want to listen to a particular rule, it may be necessary to make an example out of someone, but doing something just to embarass someone is totally uncalled for. But again, each MUD has a right to run and punish however they want, and if someone breaks a rule, then they should either accept the punishment, or leave.

"So, here I was, a new player and trying to get a grasp on the game while this other player was going through extremely graphic acts of sexual torture with a scalpel and I honestly had no idea of what to do. I didn't respond and just kind of sat in my chair with my jaw dropped. Welcome to the world of roleplaying."

Any responsible RPer, any responsible Admin, and responsible MUD in general should discourage that. I caught someone doing that on mine, I would ban them. Simple as that. No one knows what experiences people have had coming into a game, and what if this person starts RPing raping a character being played by a rape victim? I mean, aside from just common decency, a person has to stop and think about what effect they could be having on someone. I'm actually just appalled at that.

"I believe that is part of the fear that people have concerning others cybering on their mud. While people may not envision the scene that I described above, the fear that you are going to get some sick and twisted internet stalker probably does strike a chord with people."

If a MUD is setup in a way to where you can't approach someone OOC and say "This is making me uncomfortable" then there is a lot more wrong with that MUD than people wanting to get their e-jollies. RP should never go past both people's level of comfort, and at which point it does, either party should be able to stop it immediately without a problem.

"Making matters worse, an immortal dropped link right after this player finished the rp with my character, which implied that such things were acceptable behavior and encouraged on that mud. Dare I call it RP? I was just sitting in front of the computer shaking."

Again, see above. I really don't have words for this, it just... I don't know, sickens me, disappoints me, and angers me all at once.


In fact, your post has prompted me to add in my RP guidelines that bit about everyone has the right to express discomfort with the way something RP may be going, and that if such conduct proceed, either party has the right to discontinue the RP immediately. While this should be common sense, I want it in print to clearly illustrate that point.

TMC Member: Darkozx (darkozx@yahoo.com)
If I scared off any potential players because I hate cybering, good. I don't want any cybering freaks on my MUD in the first place. They will just be made a fool of in public when caught. We have a special list that all cyberers are put on when caught. Cybering should not be done on any MUD that isn't themed for it. A medievil, star wars, pokemon, dbz or any other theme should not have cybering on it. What good does cybering do? None in my opinion. I don't care if you are 500 pounds and have a pimple filled face, you can still find a girl in this world that will love you and you don't need to start your search on a MUD where you don't even know if that player is a girl or guy. No one knows for sure and it usually causes problems when the rumors start about that player's sex. Cybering should always be punished unless that MUD's theme allows it.



Ok, simple little question...when I first became engaged to my now wife, I was living in the USA, she was living 3/4 of the way across the continent and in another country. We both played on the same mud, and we spoke sexually to each other, usually in private channels, but occasionally would use the mud's socials or emote command to kiss each other, hold hands, fondle each other, whatever. This was in reality the only way my now wife and I could show affection as long distance is a real bitch. YOU might consider that cybering. WE considered it showing the love and affection we could NOT show in person because we were nearly 3000 miles away from each other. Did we cyber? None of your business. That MUD happened to have many socials for "sexual" type interaction between players, yet I was harassed by several immortals about it, both prior to my marriage, and AFTER we got married but before I moved up to Canada. And was still harassed if we held hands, etc. Matter of fact the immortals eavesdropped in our private channel communications, and I was threatened with a sitelock. I'm sorry, the imm had no business doing so, or making the threat.

Everyone knew that my wife an I were a REAL life couple and not a single solitary player gave a damn if we showed our affection other than the occasional crack of "Damn you guys STILL at it? aren't you married and the sex is supposed to die?" etc. Often being said by our friends jokingly.

So I'm sorry, your attitude is backwards and not prevalent in today's society. Do you go around calling the cops if people kiss in public? Would you call the cops on me for lewd behavior if I showed up at my wife's work and kissed her hello or held her hand or maybe goosed her?

You were one of those tattle-talers we've all been warned about weren't you?