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This was a troll long before the debate stuff came up (since the first message was a troll), I just think the debate is a completely separate topic. The other forks in the thread were at least a tiny bit related to the message they were replying on. I was disappointed by both sides during the debate, but this isn't the place to write about it.

I personally consider the debate a dead draw, but the liberal spin machine has succeeded in casting it differently, so here we are.

I was disappointed by both sides. But, I watched the debate itself and not much of the coverage (since I've been out of state this whole weekend, and had music on the radio rather than news), so I'm not very familiar with what the media thinks of it. Since the two are still politicians, I'd have a problem with calling either one of them a winner :P

Samson's been smokin' the happy tobaccy again if he thinks the debate was a draw. Bush had his rich boy's butt kicked up between his shoulder blades, & that debate was on the topic he was supposed to sail on thru to victory. Now more attention will be focused on the next debate, domestic issues, & Bush will be unable to defend his abysmal record on that front. Bush surrounds himself with yes men & audiences that are screened for true believers, so when someone gets in his face with the facts, he can't handle it. Karl Rowe isn't onstage holding his hand & whispering in his ear so he panics, & says about 15 times how it's a tough job. Gee what a wonderful debate performance!! He would've flunked in my college debate class on grimaces alone. I was hoping for a good Kerry performance, what I didn't expect was that the Bushies are so arrogant that their boy didn't seem prepared, & sucks so bad at thinking on his feet it's no wonder they don't let him near a press conference!

"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating." - George W. Bush - as quoted in "U.S.News & World Report; April 3, 2000

Your colorful messages are sometimes amusing to read. Your colored opinions are scary though. Take your head out of the liberals' ass and maybe you'd see that presentation alone isn't enough of a reason to consider it a win for Kerry. Kerry lacked in substance, Bush lacked in flare. Therefore I see it as an overall draw. Pretty simple to see that if you ignore the media spin on it.

Therefore I see it as an overall draw.


You see an overall draw, but the American public overwhelmingly sees a clear Kerry victory in all 3 debates, according to nearly every single poll that has been conducted.

Bush lacked in substance in all 3 debates, and flip-flopped on his message. Now instead of saying Kerry is always inconsistent and wishy-washy (a notion disproven by Kerry in the debates according to polls), Bush is saying that Kerry has always been consistent-- consistently liberal, anyway. Which is it, Mr. Bush? Is Kerry a flip-flopper, or a consistent liberal? Perhaps you should have a few debates with yourself to find out. In point of fact, despite Bush's desperate invocation of the classic "liberal" argument, Kerry has clearly pulled ahead after these 3 debates. If he keeps the momentum going, it will be a clear Kerry victory in November.

> if you ignore the media spin on it.

That should have been in bold or something. It seriously is about 50-50 right now. Either one could get a good increase by doing certain things, but both are being a bit held back by their parties.

Unfortunately there are enough lemmings that the media does hold quite a bit of influence. Luckily, there's enough competition among the media that there isn't only 1 or 2 big voices out there. Also, due to the high standard of living today, much of the US has access to cable channels and even the internet for even more voices if they're truly interested. I don't remember there being anything widely known like factcheck.org during the elections 4, 8, or 12 years ago.