Member Discussions

Hi.
I have been dreamming up the perfect mud ever since I came across them in my college days, back when the internet was young, Http and Java was unheard of, and the only way to run a mud is to belong to the computer science department of the local unversity and beg the administrators let you run one. Ever since then, I have thought of a number of questions that FAQ's never addressed or were unclear about. When you read them bellow, think as if money has no object, for I soon plan to come into a whole mess of it. In fact, I am filling out my lotto card right now. so here it goes.
How much does it cost to run a mud? (Think in terms
of a large, well-run mud.) Try to get all expenses.

How many people do you need to run a mud? I'm not
talking about players. I'm talk about builders,
programmers, ect.( about how many of each?) I
have heard of muds 'hiring' people. I assume this
is voluntire work, is it? Can they be at
different locations of the globe? Is there a
requirement on how many staffers need to be at the
host site?

How big can a mud get? I've heard 1M, 2M, 4M rooms.
Are there any larger? Are we reaching a limit? Are
they getting too slow?

How many mobs can a Mud have? How many per area? I'm
thinking of 'Sim City'ing it. Building economies,
starting wars.

What kind of computer would I need? Are we talking a
PC you can by in store, a special computer that cost
couple of thou more, or a mainframe? ( I heard that
the processing power of the average micro is reaching
that of the mainframe ). One idea of mine was to get
a number of PCs and hub them, each running its own
mud, with one dedicated to transferring data between
the others. In other words, multiple muds working
togeather to make I big one. ( remember: money no
object )

Well, there it went. Not that bad. For those that did - thanks. I hope to anoy you with more inane questions and ideas that pop into my all to idle mind soon.

Hmm... well there probably aren't FAQs that answer your questions because, well, it depends. Most muds that are starting out would probably cost between $0 and $20 a month to have someone host it. This doesn't include your own cost to connect to the internet of course. As for muds that have hundreds of players, I have no idea.

What kind of mud do you want to build? Something based on an existing codebase or completely from scratch? Is this a hobby or a commercial endevor? You mentioned rooms, are these rooms something static like with stock ROM, or are they created dynamically? If you talking having millions of rooms, the latter would probably be more efficient, both from a hardware point a view and from the point of view of builders (assuming you didn't abandon the concept of 'rooms' altogther).

BTW, if you become a builder/coder/some other kind of admin on an existing MUD, that would probably answer a lot of your questions better than reading anything online would.

If you're pllaning on starting a MUD, the first thing you should spend your money on is a cat scan (and I don't mean staring into the eyes of a feline either). The second thing is to talk to a shrink for a few weeks or so.

If after all that you still want to start a MUD, you're going to need a lot of help, whether starting with a completely new source code, or altering one already available, or ever using "stock" code.

If you're planning on something so large as you described, the smartest idea before you even think of building is to start offline, make an over-all map, a plan, etc. You know, design the thing on paper first, how you want it, what rules you want mortals to follow, the rules for immortals, etc, etc. Decide what classes, races, etc, etc you want.

As to how many coders, builders, etc you'll need, well that all depends on your world, how quickly you want it up and running, etc.

Also, make sure you realize that building/coding will possibly be an ongoing process as you add new things for code (possibly new spells, new functions, new features, whatever) as well as new areas, quests, etc to explore.

And if you're gonna be the owner, make sure you can either do everything everyone else can, or hire people you can trust to do it instead of you. Even then, know this, YOU are the ultimate responsibility on the MUD. You're the final word, as the saying goes. When something goes wrong and people start point their fingers and blaming each other, you get to make all the really tough decisions.

Being a MUD owner can be fun, it can also be tiresome, annoying, time consuming, and exhausting, especially at first. It's sorta like being the parent of a teenager, you sometimes end up with a love-hate relationship, you want to slap the crap out of it until it submits to doing what you want, but odds are, it'll find other ways to act up and be rebellious. Some days you could just love it (those are the days that everything's working right, the code compiles correctly and all the new code works). Some days you want to bash your head into a wall for ever thinking of starting it (or in parenting: having the kid), other days it will bring you much joy. Some times you get both types in one day and you get frazzled as hell.

Money isn't the issue, though it COULD help (just like it can with kids) but it's not absolutely necessary (unlike with kids...lol) So, take my advice, get a cat scan, see a shrink, sit back with your favorite drink and think things through, see if you REALLY want to do it. Cause it WILL get frustrating as hell sometimes (again, just like kids..lol). Then again, if you become a MUD owner, you might become better prepared for kids...it's a trade off.

(oh, in case anyone is wondering, I am a father, sorta. I married someone with 2 teenagers and became a father basically overnight. I missed all the good stuff and got sent straight to the teenage years. I've found this fatherhood thing to be less difficult then being a mud owner...scary thought aint it? On that note, I'm selling 2 teenagers, cheap...just don't tell my wife...she might pay YOU instead)

Might I humbly suggest that you might be best off finding an existing small or newly-created mud and volunteering to help there for a few months first? That way you'll be able to learn the ropes and decide whether or not you're up to the challenge of starting one of your own.
(Also, you'll be able to poach their players ;) )

I would agree with Gareth.

One of the problems with new MUDs or people starting MUDs come from people too inexperienced or ill-equipped to handle it.

I'm making the assumption based off of your questions you have little to no experience on the administration side of things.

If you join up with another MUD and help out, and more importantly, work your way up the ranks, you'll have a much better understanding of how things work than you could get from anyone telling you or anything you could read. There's a certain and very valuable perspective you can only gain by starting at the bottom and earning your way to the top. Unfortunately, a lot of people who start MUDs have no business doing such. I've seen MUD owners I wouldn't even consider hiring as a trainee immortal, much less a full time builder, or any position anywhere near the top. Even if its your MUD, I feel there is a certain amount of 'earning your stripes' that any MUD Admin should have to go through.. basically, I feel like they should earn the right or earn 'deserving' that top spot.

But anyway, that's just my perspective on the matter.

Good luck :)

RE: If you join up with another MUD and help out, and more importantly, work your way up the ranks, you'll have a much better understanding of how things work than you could get from anyone telling you or anything you could read. There's a certain and very valuable perspective you can only gain by starting at the bottom and earning your way to the top. Unfortunately, a lot of people who start MUDs have no business doing such. I've seen MUD owners I wouldn't even consider hiring as a trainee immortal, much less a full time builder, or any position anywhere near the top. Even if its your MUD, I feel there is a certain amount of 'earning your stripes' that any MUD Admin should have to go through.. basically, I feel like they should earn the right or earn 'deserving' that top spot.


I wholeheartedly agree with the above. I've had some builders on my MUD who stayed with me for like 3 weeks as a builder, then quit and go off to start one of their own. Every single one of them have failed. One even had the audacity of asking to come back to mine. My response was simple, if you weren't loyal and trustworthy enough before, you'll do the same thing again.

If they'd stayed, worked, and learned and then decided after working through the ranks on mine that they wanted to give their own a try, I'd have done all I could to help them, even keeping them on staff as long as they continued working (though I would expect a lesser amount of work).

From personal experience, I started at the bottom as builder trainee, then a builder. The MUD stalled in building and I was left in a lurch. So I spent time designing my own. Eventually got promoted on the other MUD, saw a lot of corruption, tried to stop it, got fired, started my own. hehe. BUT, I was also prepared for it by being a builder first, but also from nearly 20 years as an AD&D DM, which prepared me for world design, balancing classes, skills, etc.

So as the person above said, learn the ropes first, because one thing EVERY Admin has to do at some point or another is to train others. And you'll be doing a disservice to yourself and to them if you try to train them without knowing what you're doing first. If you don't understand what you're doing, you can't help anyone else to understand it either. (it's like trying to teach someone advanced physics when you never learned it either and are on the same lesson as them..)

You're welcome to apply for ownership of port 8000 of mugs.net

: How much does it cost to run a mud?

Most MUD admins host on Linux, meaning all the utilities you need are included with the operating system: gcc and gdb are the big ones, for a C or C++ based MUD. All MUD codebases are available money-free, as are two of my favorite Linux distributions, Debian Linux and SuSE Linux.

The only recurring cost for your MUD will be connectivity. You'll have to pay your local ISP for broadband service and a static IP.

: How many people do you need to run a mud?

You can run a MUD all by your lonesome. Just be prepared to make the code extra stable, automate everything you can, and empower players to take over traditional event running and questing duties. You'll be too busy coding and building to take on many GM duties, but QA will be a snap.

You can run a MUD with lots of people. Just be prepared for politics, squabbling, and more time spent squashing other people's bugs. You'll be able to collectively get things done faster, though, if you have good project management skills.

Most MUDs go with a happy medium: just a handful on staff, each with clearly defined and distinct responsibilities.

: How big can a mud get?

It'll be esthetics, not technology, as the limiting factor. MUDs with very large numbers of data objects generally have solid memory management: randomly generating rooms on the fly, for instance.

Not to mention most MUDs are making 1995 demands of 2005 machines-- even the most heavily modified ROM on this site probably doesn't burn a tenth as much CPU time as a P2P file sharing program or a modern graphical game.

So just let your design sense dictate how many rooms, objects, and mobiles it takes to flesh out each piece of the world.

: What kind of computer would I need?

You'll need a fairly modern computer-- any computer built after 1998 or so should be fine even for a large MUD. Keep a watchful eye on RAM-- if any component develops a need for an upgrade, it'll be RAM first.

Networking several boxes together is an interesting idea, but probably unnecessary. A single modern machine is capable of running numerous MUDs simultaneously with no performance problems whatsoever. That's how MUD hosting services make their money!

Later on you might invest in a hardware firewall, but for now, an ordinary computer is more than enough.

On the 'how many admin' question: My mud's been running for over 8 years. Its admin team has varied in size over the years from a range of 3 to about 9. My current setup is the one I find easiest to get along with:
1. Me
2 & 3: 'Higher' admins who run quests and solve player problems.
4: Head of Building Port - manages builders and areas, but doesn't have any powers on the mud itself.
5: Guest admin - this is a different person every month who gets very limited supervised powers to run smaller quests.

Right now I have very limited staff, since I'm just starting up, but I'm also allowing only 3 DMs, since the DM "powers" on a Mordor mud include things like being able to shut down the mud, dust players, sitelock, etc.

These 3 DMs are myself, my wife and my coder. The reason was logical for my coder to be a DM, when code updates to the main mud, as opposed to the test mud are needed, he'd need to be able to shut down and reboot the mud. Since he has server access, I felt he was trustworthy enough to be able to shut the mud down. hehe

I also have 4 levels of Immortals total. DM, Overseer which is like a DM but cannot dust players, sitelock, alter player files, or shut down the mud. Otherwise they can do anything a DM can do I believe. Then there are the Caretakers who are the front line inside the mud, assisting players, making sure policies are adhered to, etc. Finally are the builders who don't have interaction with players and only build areas. CTs have limited powers dealing with monsters/items. Overseers can create monsters/items.

Right now I've got 3 DMs, 2 Overseers, 3 CTs and 3 builders.

Like on many MUDs I've installed a hierarchy of sorts as you can tell. Each builder/CT is assigned a DM/Overseer mentor to go to with building questions, etc.

I am the head builder, owner, part-time coder and overall game designer. My wife, a DM, is in charge of the webdesign. My Coder is head coder. I have one overseer who is also a part time coder, the other is directly responsible for the policy adherence, but any major policy issues fall under my jurisdiction alone (these include: crashing/hacking the mud, immortals who break policies (thank God none have yet), etc.

It's a pretty good system, but one I'm still tweaking. hehe

well, one major thing to start with is, what is the theme of your mud. based on your theme, youll want to use a specific codebase, even using multiple codebases (ie, rom and circlemud) then from there, decide if you want to use stock rooms, classes and such, or trash everything and start from scratch. thatll help you decide on a mud 'engine' to use (like nakedmud or whatever). well, if youd lke, im more than willing to help you out, id love to learn to code, and ive built on several muds. im going to college for computer programming, so it shouldnt be that hard :D