Member Discussions

A year and a half ago, I joined a MUD. After months of work I was promoted as Co-Owner. The Co-Owner I was working with left a month ago, undefinately, not to return. He handed over the MUD to me, under the understanding that if I ever shut it, he could have a copy. Once he left, in my nievity, I didn't change the shell access password and last night the old co-owner logged on to my machine (without my permission) and deleted it all. After heated discussions today, he has asked that I don't use anything that was created in the MUD for my new MUD which I will launch. The MUD is a modified SMAUG.

My question is: does he have the right to stop me using any aspect of it?

Code: Does he own the code? Does the coder who wrote it? Code is modified SMAUG so how can he demand it is his?

Areas: We both wrote many areas, as with other builders. We are not able to make contact with the other builders. Who owns them? Can I only use the ones I wrote in my MUD? Can he only use the ones he wrote in his MUD? What about areas that were written a while back, writers of which don't exist any more?

Website: I wrote most of the verbage for the web site content. A webmaster designed it. Who owns that? I assume no one can own the formatting of a web site. As long as I change the MUD names and perhaps the graphics, I don't think he has any claim to that.

Help files: Who owns these? I wrote many help file topics. He may have written some. Many are stock help. Does anyone own them, or have the right stopping someone use them?

Spell lists/misc, etc.: I wrote spell lists and other misc. stuff. Do I own those? Does he, as it was his MUD originally?

Connection attempts to my PC: Do I have any legal rights with regards to any attempts he may make to my PC? As I said, he connected on my computer using the ROOT account and deleted all the files.

His arguement all the way along is that he came up with the original concept and started it. My arguement is "so what"? He didn't do all the work.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

See the discussion 'Mud Ownership', about 20 threads down from this one.

To summarise briefly - in the absence of any specific agreements to the contrary you each 'own' what you created, and might (perhaps) have an implied licence to use other parts of the mud, including what each other created.

Best solution is to talk to each other, and come to some sort of agreement, probably involving a cross-licence to use each other's work.

I'd very much like to come to a mutual agreement but so far the other party seems totally unwilling. His opinion is that he original came up with the concept and as such owns it all.

When he comes up with comments like, "If you do use any of my stuff, I'll do my damndest to spoil or destroy it, or bad mouth you", it makes me somewhat concerned. Whilst these are perhaps idle threats that are said in moments of anger, I don't want us to proceed this way really, having to watch who logs in, from where and when, etc.

I like the idea of a cross agreement although the work is naturally carried out by many, many different parties. I just don't think it is possible for either one of us to obtain appropriate permissions for everything was done. However, again, the main point he is saying is that he came up with the original idea and as such owns "everything". I say a resounding "nay" to that.

Having read many of the messages in the forum and especially the topic you listed, it seems to be that the creator is always the one who owns "stuff". As a result, I would draw a conclusion that unless a "mutual agreement" is make, when a MUD fails in such a way, everything needs to basically be re-done. You simply can't take a MUD and divide it into sections based upon who wrote what, even down to silly things like I may have written an area, and someone came along after me and fixed my typos, added a few extra rooms, mobs and objects, etc. How can any one person own such a thing?

Let me ask a question the other way around. If one were to use someone else code, areas or whatever (perhaps from a MUD split such as this), is there any likely chance that any rites or legal proceedings will occur? I mean, in reality, people may moan and growl, but will anything ever be done. It just seems so futile to me. I suppose if things took at turn this way and two MUD were running initially the same thing and legal proceedings did occur, the "guilty" party could just kill the MUD at the first sign of trouble and then there would be no more. Correct?

> Having read many of the messages in the forum and
> especially the topic you listed, it seems to be that the
> creator is always the one who owns "stuff".

The author owns their own work, yes, that's the way copyright law works.

> As a result, I would draw a conclusion that unless
> a "mutual agreement" is make, when a MUD fails in such a
> way, everything needs to basically be re-done.

Your conclusion is incorrect.

> You simply can't take a MUD and divide it into sections
> based upon who wrote what, even down to silly things like
> I may have written an area, and someone came along after
> me and fixed my typos, added a few extra rooms, mobs and
> objects, etc. How can any one person own such a thing?

If you created something, then under copyright law it belongs to you. If someone else modifies that then they have created a derivative work and no, you cannot use the "new work" without their permission. You could still use your own work, however.

> Let me ask a question the other way around. If one were
> to use someone else code, areas or whatever (perhaps from
> a MUD split such as this), is there any likely chance
> that any rites or legal proceedings will occur?

That depends on the work, and what you're doing with it. If you were to take the areas from a commercial mud and use them in such a way that they could claim you had caused them lost earnings, then you might well find yourself in serious financial trouble. In most cases you'd probably be issued a cease-and-desist letter first, giving you the opportunity to discard everything you'd been working on up until that point.

I wouldn't recommend taking that risk (particularly when it means throwing away stuff you might have spent months or even years working on). Instead - failing reaching a compromise - I would suggest taking your own work, licking your wounds, and being more careful in the future.

However, again, the main point he is saying is that he came up with the original idea and as such owns 'everything'.

Ideas and works are two very different things. Ideas can only be protected under certain specific conditions and then only explicitly under patent law. Failing that, its a pretty safe general statement to say that... NOBODY OWNS AN IDEA. He most definately does own his works however.

Thankfully, we came to an agreement the other night and he agreed I can use the code he had with all areas other than ones he worked on. I also agreed he could use mine, as a comprimise, although whether he will do or not is to be seen.

I guess as tempers calmed a little, agreements are be made.