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Well, I've set up my mud so that only mages get spells, and, what seemed like a good idea at the time (and isn't too bad, but I think something better can be done) is that mages can create spellbooks, 'scribe' up to 4 spells into them, and if they're holding them in their hands during combat (they cannot use weapons), then the spells in them are automatically cast (mage_multi_hit) each fight pulse, at roughly 1/4 cost and effectiveness (naturally, not all spells can be put into books).
I've heard of various other methods, not so original (not that even what I've done is probably original, someone else has done everything before... I want to find that someone who's done everything and wring his nect, or ask him questions, not sure which (assuming it's a him)).. any case..
other methods I have heard of:

Mages fight with weapons too, but they get spells instead of special skills.
pros - easier to balance
cons - makes for a less diversive set of classes

Mages can create spellbooks, and chant out of them to use them.
pros - keeps mages unique
cons - break apart here - it depends how it is done:
If the mages can qrite any old spell, it becomes a little lacking in creativity.
If some more elaborate (however not too complex to the player) system is used, this might be the way I choose to go - some sort of glyph system, where mages compile spells together through a string of magic words - not sure how to make this fair for all though.. makes secrets too important, and players get upset as they feel they are having information held back from them that others have access to unfairly, etc...

Mages don't fight as themselves, but posess lesser beings to battle for them... if the lesser being is killed before they detach themselves (in whatever way) the mage dies too...
pros - well, this is something i thought up, so mebbe a little more original
cons - again, balance issues...

Anyone have any ideas on how mages could be done (other classes on this mud are vampires, werewolves and dragons, if relevant, in a fantasy (duh) theme), or improvements or more detailed tweakings of the afformentioned that would make them workable?

I can code pretty well, so that side of it isnt a problem, though code structure concepts are always welcome, I'm primarily interested in mages from the 'players persepctive' kind of thing...

Dash.

Other thoughts:

1
Mages 'channel' energy around them, varying by location.

2
Mages know incantation phrases, 3 of which can be combined at once to form spells, the spell created dependent on the phrases chosen. (3 chosen to minimize combination count)

3
Mages know gestures for both the left and right hands, 2 of which may be combined at once to form spells, the spell dependent on the gestures chosen.

4
Component based magic, 3 components combined forming a spell. The mixing medium also affecting the spell such as a cauldron, pot, campfire, bowl of water, etc..

5
Any combination of 2, 3 and 4.

6
Totemic magic based on a major animal totem possessed by the mage combined with minor 'helper' totems. As totems are usually a piece of an animal, this produces a 'seek and ye shall find' type of atmosphere for improving your spellcasting ability.

7
Elemental based magic (very common).

I could go on and on, there are so many ways to represent magical systems. The keys, at least to me, are the following:

The players should interact with the system, not just fire-and-forget.

Mages should always be dependent on their environment for their spellcasting abilities and progression, ie component stores, harvesting components, obtaining totems from kills, area based spell strength, hard to find teachers, etc..

Magic should ALWAYS have consequences to balance them against non-magical players.

Magic should always provide a way for players to introduce new content into the world, ie magic items, persistent effects, etc..

Of course, all of this is just my opinion.

Jeredin

My magic system is heavily influenced by the Firetop Mountain play-by-email game. But so is the regular combat system, so the two slot together pretty well - a mage might snap their fingers and point at their opponent in order to shoot a firebolt, while a warrior might clench their fist and throw a jab to create the same result. The warrior would raise his shield to protect himself, while the mage would wiggle his fingers to create a forcefield.

The result is that mages can effectively fight against warriors without having to engage in physical combat. I always found it rather silly to see a mage armed with a pair of swords fighting it out like a warrior, and just throwing off the occasional fireball.

Note that I use the terms "mage" and "warrior" to loosely describe the general types of tactic used. Although there is a "Mage" class, they can be geared towards either physical or magical combat just like every other class.

At the risk of sounding like an Idea Stealer (I am one, I don't just sound like one), does anyone care to elaborate on the type of component structure they use to make this mage casting work? ie, I've stripped out all the stock spells causr there were so many of them that were never used, and it's a new spell system, so it was impractical to try to convert them, however, thare's roughly 60 spells, all different, offensive, defensive, for creating a range of magical items, for containing spells into a bundle of things, etc, what are the basics of a component type system, and how would one be implemented so there was enough range to cast all the spells, yet it was not so complex that the players give up in frustration? (we are primarily a PK mud - if it's difficult to mean the better players do better in pk/exp, great, if it's complex enough that they have to read a dozen help files, + one for each spell, + reference the website, and it drags down the speed of pk, they will get frustrated...)

Coding in C, though I am sure it won't get detailed enough to be terribly language-dependant, but I assume you'd vreate a table of actions, and attach a string of those actions to each spell, grouping certain types of actions to a spell type, for example, most attack spells would start with one action, followed by however many others, and defensive spells may start with another, etc...
The other issue is that all other classes get a their automatic attacks round per round... should mages just rely on shields they have cast (offensive and defensive) or get some sort of automatic attack too?
Also, is there merit in making the spells you gain depending on the actions you learn, or is it better to allow all actions, and they have to learn the spells? or does it make no real difference?
and, finally, is it better to have the player cue up the actions (ie cast felonara fireglyph inverno, or cast felonara;cast fireglyph; cast inferno) ?
More issues with that, as either way the characters are sure to set up aliases to cast the spells for them, is there any practical way of making this less effective than actualy 'playing' the game (pet peeve of mine), especially as if you tie in a series of actions, it forces the mage to type a lot more than the simple 'cast chain lightning', which is usually shortened to 'c c l'...

I know one way to make aliasing less effective is to have something like a 90% sucess rate on the commands, and sub-states of casting a spell requiting it to be done part at a time, but this, once again, is likely tolead towards frustration from the players...

If you want to see how the system works, I'd suggest either playing Firetop Mountain or taking a look at my Gladiator Pits II codebase. You might also find my description of the GW2 combat system useful, but to be honest I think it's one of those things that you really need to try for yourself in order to get a feel for how it works.

To be honest though, I'm not sure how well it'll work if you're sticking with the standard Diku combat system. The two systems are completely different, and I don't think they'd mix very well at all.

DaShiVa wrote : does anyone care to elaborate on the type of component structure they use to make this mage casting work?

The usual method is for some/most/all spells to require a component to be present in the Mage's inventory (or hand), and to be consumed by the spell - if the component is absent the spell fails.

eg casting a fireball spell requires a pinch of brimstone.

An alternative I'd like to see tried is to have optional components, which could improve the spell (in strength, duration etc).

Thus the basic fireball spell could be cast without components, but optionally you could 'cast fireball with ash', or 'cast fireball with brimstone' etc to strengthen it. If you require the components to be held while casting, you wouldn't need to specify the component in the command - just 'hold brimstome' then 'cast fireball'.

If you use one component (or family of components, with differing costs/strengths) for each family of spells, the difficulty of learning the system should be reduced - eg 'brimstone' and/or 'ash' for all fire-based spells.

The other issue is that all other classes get a their automatic attacks round per round... should mages just rely on shields they have cast (offensive and defensive) or get some sort of automatic attack too?

This is a matter of preference/balance. From a logical viewpoint, if a mage is concentrating on spellcasting, his ability to carry out other actions should be limited - conversely if he is dodging physical attacks, or waving his own sword around, his spellcasting should be less effective because of those distractions.

You probably have 3 sensible options:
1) Allow other actions without penalty to spellcasting, but make those other actions less effective than the corresponding actions by a non-Mage (otherwise the Mage becomes far too powerful, if he can fight as well as a Warrior, and cast spells at the same time).
2) Forbid other options - ie swinging a sword or physically dodging would cause the current spell to fail.
3) Incorporate a penalty to either/both of the magical and physical combat if you try to use both at the same time.

Also, is there merit in making the spells you gain depending on the actions you learn, or is it better to allow all actions, and they have to learn the spells? or does it make no real difference?

I'm not sure quite what the question is here. So far as I understand it, again it's probably a matter of balance/preference.

A couple of possibilities to consider, as alternatives to the traditional 'kill->xp->level->learn new spell' system :
1) Require some spells to be learned from non-standard teachers, who need to be found, with other requirements (eg min-quests) before the teacher is willing to teach the spell.
2) Allow all spells to be learned at any level, but attempting to cast a 'powerful' spell with a low level of skill would carry a large chance not only of failure but of a disastrous 'backfire'

More issues with that, as either way the characters are sure to set up aliases to cast the spells for them, is there any practical way of making this less effective than actualy 'playing' the game (pet peeve of mine), especially as if you tie in a series of actions, it forces the mage to type a lot more than the simple 'cast chain lightning', which is usually shortened to 'c c l'...

I know one way to make aliasing less effective is to have something like a 90% sucess rate on the commands, and sub-states of casting a spell requiting it to be done part at a time, but this, once again, is likely tolead towards frustration from the players...

I think that trying to prevent use of aliases is doomed to failure - and probably rightly so. Victory should go to the quick thinker, or the cunning strategist, rather than to the fast typer.

Minimising the effectiveness of triggers is a better objective IMO, and is best approached by making combat more complex, more varied (eg choice of different messages meaning the same thing), and more random (eg possibilities of spell failures and backfires), and probably more dynamic (eg opponents learn from you).

As far as automatic attacks, I'd disallow them if your spells are equal or greater in power than physical combat abilities, probably using a 'mode' the player must be in to do either.

About spells being gained based on what you actions you learn or knowing all actions, I'd say that's personal perference. I prefer a system of learning new spells based on what actions I've taken.

Regarding defeating aliases, another way to handle the situation is to rigorously time events. If every spell has a cast time, followed by a delay, the use of aliases to 'cue' up actions wouldn't imbalance combat. As long as the cast time plus delay is a reasonable amount, ie reasonable enough to allow a non-alias user to type the same commands that an alias user would cue, you should be fine.

Jeredin

What thing I'm in the middle of finishing up right now. Is my new combat system, and I had just finished my new touch ups to the spell system. Basically with spells I didn't like the idea of you cast a spell and then you wait. So I made up a queuing system. The spells are queued, once the queue time runs out the spell is casted and then there is a small wait time after.

Also with the queuing I've made things like bash, critical strike, ... made them so they can interrupt a queue. Obviously a wizards getting slammed into the wall is going to mess up him chanting the spell. So I made a small interrupt thing that with either have the spell cast at 1/2 power of just fizzle.

Then with the new combat system I'm almost finished with, I moved combat to a speed based combat. No more second, third, fourth, fifth attack non-sense. It's based on speed figured from your race, class, encumbrance, and weapon of choice. Now if you have something in queue. The combat won't allow you to do any offensive attacks with a weapon while there is a queue in place. But it does to a degree allow for dodging, and for some parrys and counters. Figured this would help in the way of balancing the weapons fighting vrs. the spells.

As for components, I've been working on them a bit. So far the only things I have requiring a component is the necromancer's summon spells, those require corpses, some require multiple corpses, and some require a certain type of corpse like a dragon corpse or a mummified corpse. As for the others I just planned that you would hold the item and as you cast it would see if that’s what it needed and then use it. And it’s not hard with the holding components just add a type to the skill table for a component and then make a new item type for it. And make up a number of them. Then you could do what I did and make a spell_level function that will raise or lower the casted level of the spell. Making it stronger or weaker based on what ever.

And hehehe thanks for letting me know someone else had the idea of a spell book, I didn’t want to look like an idiot and do that.


I'm also running what used to be a rom so it's very possiable and easy to mod a rom to do all this.

Something that I'm currently developing into my MUD is a level-based skill system - think something like how Diablo's spells functioned. Basically, once you've fully trained the spell in the first place, you can later (under the right circumstances) increase its power level...this may increase its damage, or area of effect, or duration, increase or decrease its mana cost, etc. Each level will be costly in terms of experience, and have a significant difference. Now, what I'm going to end up doing is continue allowing anyone to use any weapons they like, and let them fight while casting spells (although mages will probably choose to have a lower strength to boost int, but regardless), but I'm going to create spellbooks and staves that grant power levels to specific or to all spells - however, they won't be weapon-type items, which means that holding one or more of these (books would need one hand, staves two) would forego some or all attacks. Optionally, you could be more detailed than just having power levels with preset effects, is do something similar to what was mentioned previously, and create non-consumable components (think metamagic feat-granting rods from D&D). All you have to do is hold the item and some aspect of all your spells will be increased, but, again, you'll forfeit your attacks due to the unlikely shape of the talisman. But if you still want to be the warrior mage, go for it, hack away while you cast...you just won't be as effective at either as a higher-strength fighter or a talisman-wielding mage.

Now if you have something in queue. The combat won't allow you to do any offensive attacks with a weapon while there is a queue in place. But it does to a degree allow for dodging, and for some parrys and counters. Figured this would help in the way of balancing the weapons fighting vrs. the spells.
I am thinking you are meaning mages here, however you've given me an idea... critical hits I've got coded already, for both mages and other classes, however, I also have prelagged spellcasting at present, and a stack handler with inbuilt aliases and extraction:
This means I can do pretty much anthing with it, from priority of commands and a buncha other stuff.
If mages are going to have more complex casting, then I can make it 'delicate' (ie if you enter one command while it's processing an earlier part, it will damage the effectiveness of the spell) - but put the same affect on the fighters where if they are stacking commands they cannot defend as well, or become less accurate or similar...
The only spell I have requireing component(s) is my version of voodoo, creating a doll that can be beneficial or detremental, but the more it is used the more it breaks down (ie anything a mage does to the doll is retroactively done to the target player, good or bad) and polymorph, which is for becoming another class for a short period, however the other classes have their component based stuff too, like werewolves creating fetishes, etc... assuming they can collect enough ears/tongues/teeth/whatever of a victim.
There's already code in place for 'researching' new spells, etc (though they're actually coded by me whe the 'research' is done).

On the spellbooks issue, I was looking at it tofold: firstly, much like KaVir's 'Action' type casting, (yeah, I think I gstole that idea from Glad, when I first looked it over :))I could use 'Runic' type writing of spells into the book (same thing effectivly, just into a 'visible' alias, if you think about it that way) and then the mage can chant them off...
I think I'm leaning towards that, coupled with the shields for basic (automatic) attack/defense, and using a little of your idea, as I already have 'command stack manipulation', etc, in place.
So far as ROM/whatever goes, I'm a firm believer that Godwars/ROM/Smaug/whatever are all pretty much the same basic concept, the only really different codebases being like LP or similar, and even most of that can be done if you wish.. my 'codebase', while still crediting Godwars, and it's lineage, is custom enough it could really be anything...

Back to the learning system, for whoever was asking, I am thinking I may create 55 or so "Glyphs" - 10 different types, - 5 base glyph for each of the different spell types, and as they learn a new level in each sphere, they learn a new glyph, allowing them to formulate a new spell (or two), with all the major spells depending on glyphs, also, I have scripted C code so that damage, for example, can have a glyph layer overlayed so players can effectivly write their own code to a degree, the betyter glyphs, the more damage/healing/duration/bonuses they'd get from a particular spell, with the option of them creating the actual damage messages, as thats all scripted too, within reason.

No my queues and a command stack are two totaly different things. I have skills, and spells that are queued. So you typed cast 'acid' it find the spell and then sets the queue time, the sn of the spell whos it's targeting and what not... Then the queue counts down, and once it's done the spell fires. Some skills do this as well... But Critical, and bash if you hit a person who has a queue you have a chance of messing up what ever was being queued causing it to fire but at half strength.

So no I didn't just mean mages (I don't have mages I have wizards there is a differance). I ment anything with anything going to be queued can only do defencive combat moves no offensive.

Well, I have prelag, which sounds similar to what you are talking about, and also stack management, so, between the two of them i have a lot of room to work with :)

Well, for anyone who is interested, this is what I am doing now:
There are 10 spheres for mages, each sphere has a spell type, a damage type, and other such areas depending on the spell cast.
A mage starts with a minor rune from each sphere, and can learn up to level 5 in each sphere, learning more powerful runes.
A mage recites runes in any order they like, and if the runes make a spell, they can memorise the spell to a name, which they can then cast in future.
The spell created depends on the runes in a logical fashion:
The first rune defines the spell type: direct damage, single target for one sphere, item creation for another sphere, etc.
The power/level of the spell depends partly on the level of the rune used to start the spell, and partly on the other runes used.
For damage spells the second rune defines the type of damage dealt (There are 10 damage types, 10 spheres, so it works out nicely), if it is a creation spell, the second rune will define type of item created, and for self enhancing spells the other runes will define the types of bonuses the spell gives you, etc.
If you put too many runes into a spell, it will backfire, or if the runes clash (ie, trying to cast a spell that does both heat and cold damage), and will hurt the mage.
Mages base automatic attacks are purely from shields, and while in combat the mage can either cast regular spells, or chant from a spellbook, which can hold a number of spells depending on how big the mage is (and depending on one of the spheres' levels, etc)
Spells chanted from spellbooks are slightly less effective, but also cheaper, and, naturally, much faster to chant.
Spells themselves are event driven, so don't take place immediatly, and a lot of other little bits and pieces in there too I won't bother to mention here.
Only just started on writing the code, so I can't say "It works great" yet, but I have faith it will be much better than the current system :)

Any comments on what I have decided to do are welcome, Like I said, I'm currently coding it, so can change it if someone spots a flaw, or has a good suggestion, etc :).
DaShiVa.

Great idea I had a simular idea to use words, where a mage could put the different words to gether to form kind of custom spells.... But this makes more sence.... Have fun reason I never did mine was I could figure an easy way to do it all.

sounds real good and my favorite part is one that you seemed to glance over in half a sentance that was kinda confusing to read anyway :)

"Mages base automatic attacks are purely from shields"

Do you mean to say that (in responce to those that claim mages shouldnt use weapons and cast at the same time) the mages automatic combat is based on like shockshield and fireshield that fire out bolts either when attacked or even every round like normal combat? If so that is actually quite brilliant- something I never thought of before and yet it makes so much sense... Bravo! to that.

Sorry, I think I put som emore detail in earlier notes:
Mages don't use weapons.
Mages were getting autocast spell from their spell books for the automatic fight round.
This has been changed to their so-called 'shield' spells, which are both offensive and defensive, and can be enchanted into armour (yeah, mages can still wear armour, they just need to magically lighten it if they want to wear a lot, as they arent too strong).
Shields can be either the defensive 'when someone hits you they take damage' or offensively strike out at your main (or all) opponent(s). It depends on the shield, and the level it's cast at, etc. (ie the sphere that starts off shield spells, there's the basic 0 level rune that all mages get at start, if you start a spell with this you'll be casting a fairly weak shield, where if you get level 5 in that sphere, and start a spell with the level 5 rune, it'll be more powerful, and, possibly, I could even make some 'super all powerful' shield that might take 6 level 5 runes to cast, though, I am of the opinion that if you make a really powerful spell, even if you make it really hard to cast, someone will get to that level, and it'll make things hard to balance, besides, I forsee perhaps 10 shield spells made, and limiting a mage to 4 of 5 at a time, depending on levevel, though some shields may strike multiple times in a round, if a high enough level - the type of damage is fairly important on my mud - mobiles have a different resistances and vuneralabilities to all damage types, and players have resistance levels too, so the type of damage you deal becomes as relevant as the stance you take, in analogy).
Other classes get their weapon fight rounds, which can improve through their agility, speed, power, and special things like fangs, claws, horns, etc..

well, I call them runes (or glyphs) but they are really words.. when a mage learns a new sphere level, for example "Spirit Sphere" they will get a new rune, the name randomly picked from a table of mystical sounding words (for Spirit Sphere, it'll use the "'S' table" so all runes of a particular sphere start with the same letter as that sphere, to make it easier for mages to remember). Of course, if I had a 'super extended fantasy charset that included all sorts of bizzaire runic/glyph-looking letters, and everyone who would ever play would have a keyboard that supported them, then it might be different, but thats never gonna happen :P
The structure is all laid out... Currently turning spells into events, to save kludgy variable storage, and I was thinking of having it something like:

Fizban mutters 'Fwazaa'.

... a pulse or 2 pass ...

Fizban mutters 'Enfuren'.

... more pulses ...

Fizban mutters 'Eglorio!', and claps his hands together.
A fireball shoots towards you from Fizban!
You are burned horribly! (4132)

And while this would be simple to do, It would become rather spammy, So I'll either go with:

Fizban mutters 'Fwazaa. Enfuren. Eglorio!' and claps his hands together.

... pulses ...

A fireball ....

or perhaps have a config option, so players can choose, ecept I have too many config options already, it's becoming to get too complicated just to set up what you do and dont see, and the format, etc...
If only I could set up full VT100 support and be able to place text anywhere I like on the screen, so as the 'Fizban says ' line scrolls up, the words are added to it... but that, for sure, would be a little to difficult (if even possible) for me to code (and expect it to work on any VT100 compatable mud client... besides, too many peopl euse GMud, god only knows why, and I have enough trouble atm making strings such as the 'stop underline' sequence work at present :P).
Dash.

I'm currently working on designing a mud with a friend, and have focused on a different aspect of magic combat. (Our plan is to have a classless mud, so any player can learn any skill/spell if they have the stats and prerequisites, so the design had to be that anyone can learn both magic and weapons.)

My goal was to create a design where you could be pure magic and kick butt, or pure phys and kick butt, or a mix and all be decently balanced.

-----------------------------------------
1) "Stances" - Off vs Def, Magic vs Phys, MOff vs MDef

A big part of the plan is to use something similar to stances, where you can set how much you are focusing on one thing or another. Eg, you can set yourself Offense vs Defense (on a scale of 0-4, which means Offense 4 would be 0/4 focused on physical defense and 4/4 focused on physical offense). This would be a warrior who is ignoring all attacks (forfeiting parry/dodge/etc) and only hitting with all his might.

You can also set yourself for Magic vs Physical. Physical 3 would be 3/4 focused on physical actions (offensive or defensive) and 1/4 focused on spells (which means your remove blind spell would be slower and less likely to succeed).

There is also MDefense and MOffense (magic off/def). This would reflect a spellcaster who is concentrating on blocking attacks/spells or one who is focusing on casting blind/firebolt/etc. By definition, anything detrimental to another is considered offense, and anything beneficial (including +strength, healing, etc) is considered defense.

---------------------------------------
2) Maintaining spells

I found this idea in the video game Arcanum, and thought it'd rock in a mud. I also think that it's a system that makes more RP sense.

There are two kinds of spells: Instant and Enduring. Instant spells are like fireball. Zap bang gone.
Enduring spells are ones that would normally have durations.
The idea is that you don't just cast a spell, pay the mana, then don't think of it anymore. You cast a spell, and you have to keep feeding it mana to keep it going.

Each Enduring spell has an initial mana cost and a maintainance cost. More powerful spells drain you fairly quickly, so you want to cancel them as soon as is practical.

The SPELLS command shows you the spells that you are maintaining and who the spell is cast on (so that you cancel the right spell). Then you can type CANCEL 2.SLOW to get rid of the second slow spell that you cast.

LIMITED SPELLS. The smarter you are, the more spells you can keep going at once. This also means that if your buddy spells you up, it's actually costing him because that's less spells he can cast elsewhere.

---------------------------------------
3) Automatic Responses

Part of my design is that you set your automatic response. This is because I kinda like the Diku automatic attack (personal preference) but I dislike how all the automatic defenses stack, and I dislike how boring the auto attacks are. So, you can set two automatic responses for each type, primary and secondary.

Type OFFENSE and you'd see a summary of your basic offensive status (with OFF vs DEF and PHYS vs MAGIC, attack speed, etc). It'll also show what your default attacks are. You could type OFF STAB and your auto response would be stab. If stab wasn't available, the mud would revert to a default, of course. A more powerful character might put OFFENSE DECAPITATE, and your auto response would be the decapitate skill, or whatever. (The design also uses attack speed rather than 1st/etc attacks, which could compensate because decap might be a slower attack).

You can also set your automatic defense. Parry would be a quick defense (raising your attack speed). If you set your auto defense to riposte, you'd get a chance to hit the opponent when you parry, but a lower chance to parry and lower attack speed.

ON TO THE MAGIC PART

(Sorry, but it felt like the phys side would make the magic auto responses make more sense.) There is no automatic magic offense. Magic attacks are more powerful than phys attacks, which compensates for their slower nature. There are also some magic spells that create reoccuring damage, which is similar in some ways.

Magic defense is done differently than others that I've seen. You first have your primary defense which is either a SHIELD or an ARMOUR, and your second defense is a spell blocking type.

Magic shields give greater protection, but prevent many physical actions (picture a bubble around the char... no kick attacks with a shield up). Magic armour gives less protection, but provides full mobility.

You don't cast SHIELD or ARMOUR defense normally. You type MDEF ON, and your magical defenses are activated. The mana cost is also different. Most defenses take some of the damage from your SHIELD/ARMOUR and some from your Hp. The higher shields/armours have better protection at a higher cost. Some might deflect spells or ranged attacks better, etc etc.

The secondary magic protection is simply a spell blocking component. Like the auto defenses, it could be used to simply block spells, redirect them (lower success, some mana cost, etc) or whatever.

-------------------------------------------
4) SUMMARY

I realize that this is a touch different than the stuff you guys were talking about, but really the only way to come up with a unique idea is to look at things from a different angle. The goal is to make magic combat different than normal combat, and to make it very customizable. I've tried to use the simple stance concept to make it so that people have to choose what to focus on. Are they mostly braining people with their mace or trying to heal their friends (because their healing spells heal more if they are PHYS 0 and MDEF 4). Will they get creamed if they don't pay enough attention to defending themselves?

The idea might not work entirely without the accompanying party code, where all people in the front of the line can attack and be attacked at all times (rather than the "tank" setup) and all people in the back need to use polearms or ranged weapons/spells, but hopefully some aspects might be useful to you.

Sorry for the long post. Guess I didn't feel like starting my own this time.

(Comment added by tzephtan on Tue Aug 26 2:27:29 2003)

Oops, just a disclaimer...

These ideas can be used with runic, component, or syllable magic or whatever. Most of the stuff I put down doesn't conflict with the other ideas. At least not much.

I've seen spell upkeep in use and it's absolutely one of the best systems in my opinion. However, the downfall of the upkeep system is that newer characters are told to upkeep one or two spells (usually armor and bless), then handed a sword and told to fight. If upkeep were to be used, I think the interruptions should apply to those as well.

Poor player education is a problem in every mud. Don't get me started on the poor shape of help files on most muds.

However, I agree that some major attacks would have a chance of disrupting the mages concentration and causing him to lose his mental hold on his spells.

This is an interesting thread. What are some other elements that people like in mage combat?

Personally, I like epic. When I envision mage battles I envision vast pillars of fire and brimstone crashing down upon your opponent. Encasing your opponent in ice and shattering him, or magnificent ice dragons such as that seen in Bleach or the water dragons of Naruto.

Magic to me should be epic epic combat, but it should also require preparation. An unprepared mage should be beaten to a pulp, but if he takes his time and plans his magics properly he can be a devastating force to be reckoned with.


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MM

Manna_MRE wrote:

What are some other elements that people like in mage combat?

Personally, I like epic. When I envision mage battles I envision vast pillars of fire and brimstone crashing down upon your opponent. Encasing your opponent in ice and shattering him, or magnificent ice dragons such as that seen in Bleach or the water dragons of Naruto.

When I envision a big Mage v. Mage duel, I also picture a lot of defenses, counter spelling, reflecting of spells, etc. Then of course, some spells have to get "shrugged off" for dramatic effect.

But whatever you do, when fighting another mage, under no circumstances should you ever say: "Be not!"

--
Michael (Aristotle)
Threshold RPG - Our World, Your Imagination
http://www.thresholdrpg.com

Be not? I'm missing the reference. Are there mages on Threshold? If so, how do they work?


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MM

Our 'standard' spellcasters fight without weapons by using Orbs or Staffs to focus their powers.

When a spellcaster finds a weapon that they like, they have a spell called 'manifest', which puts the weapon inside their Orb. The better the weapon, the better the focus of the Orb. (I think the reason why our coder chose this system is that our Mud is heavily geared around collecting the best possible weapons and equipment, and this gives the spellcasters a chance to use the good weapons that they find. Which makes the game more interesting for them).

The Staffs are however more efficient than the orbs, harder to get by, and probably more original.

We have trees in the Mud that you can fell for timber and sell, but some of those trees are 'magic'. The magic ones grow from sapling to large trees during a rather long time, and eventually die, so the cycle can start over again. They are most powerful as petrified trees just before they die. Now along comes a Gypsy, with the skill 'woodsing'. He chants to the tree, which turns it into a Staff, better the older the tree is. Although the Gypsy cannot use the Staff himself, he can sell it for a very good price to any spellcaster.

Our spellcasters also have the skills scribe and brew, which for now are pretty generic, although they have to learn them from special teachers. Not all spells can be scribed or brewed of course.

We are however in the process of implementing an improved brewing subskill, in order get access to some more powerful spells for the potions. To brew these 'super potions', which are better than anything you can acquire in the game, you need to first collect the ingredients, 5 different for each potion. The super potions already exist, but at present you have to turn the ingredients in to a 'Healer' mob, who then brews the potion for you. The improvement is that the spellcasters will be able to brew these potions themselves.

We are hoping that this will create a 'player market' for the ingredients as a side effect. Just as Gypsies can make a living from singing to trees and tinkering weapons, the players that like to explore the world can collect the more rare potion ingredients to sell.

Manna_MRE wrote:
Be not? I'm missing the reference. Are there mages on Threshold? If so, how do they work?


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MM

There is a very major series of books written by David Eddings where the only restriction on magic is that you can never wish something out of existence. To do so is to doom your own self to destruction. So if you are fighting someone in a magic duel, you cannot wish "Be not!"

Describing Threshold's magic system depends on how exactly you want to define magic for the purpose of this discussion. We have your traditional mages and sorcerors, and their magic is in the form of spells that are powered by internal energy as well as special, conjured components that must be combined in the right amounts. Spell component management is a significant part of the process, and some components are harder to come by. But the majority of the componenets are conjurable, so most of your spells are readily available if you have done a little prep.

We also have psions and alchemists, whose powers may feel "magic like" to some people. Psions channel mental energy in a variety of ways depending on the form. Alchemists have inherent powers that are very spell like, but most of their powers require mixtures that they prepare in a lab and then take into the field. The mixtutres are formed from a large list of elements that they can either find in the field or purchase in their guild. They can also make oils, powders, and other things that serve a very wide variety of purposes, buffs, enhancements, etc.

But as for intense 1v1 magic duels, we do not have anything like epic mage battles you would read about in a book or see in a movie. I think that sort of thing is very cool, but would require a very significant special system that was outside of the normal combat system.

--
Michael (Aristotle)
Threshold RPG - Our World, Your Imagination
http://www.thresholdrpg.com