Member Discussions

This is just a brief question to start it off:

Have you ever played on a MU* ran by a couple (as in boyfriend and girlfriend, husband and wife, same sex partners) and if so, how did you find the conduct of the couple in question?

I've only had a few experiences of it, but one I had in particular left a very corrupt core of the MUD. Basically, they said the MUD would be fair, and varied because there were two implementors and as such you could report a problem with one to the other in confidence. Well, it didn't quite work out like that, and the frequently problematic (male) immortal was pretty much the dominant partner in the relationship and as such if you complained to his fionce he would find out, and would pretty much make your life hell on the MUD.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone else had any similar experiences?

--Xeno

My husband and I co-run Kingdoms of the Lost, and have from the begining 3 odd years ago.

We make no claims about keeping things from each other, because that's not the type of relationship we have on the mud, or in life. I think most the players know from the get go that the two imps know everything that happens to the other.

The only problems we sometimes run into, is that while we both have equal say, most people will defer to Chalgyr over me. Now, in some aspects, he does know more than I do, however, when it comes to upholding basic rules, making game related desicions, we both agree on what we want.

Most times when a player gets him or herself into trouble, however, I am usually the most active one around. Chalgyr works during the days, and even though he can mud a bit from work, he's called away often.

This creates a few problems, because I've gotten a hard reputation on the mud with disipline. If I see something that I can handle alone, I do it. If it's something that I think should be talked over, I will explain that to the person(s) in question. If I feel the need to have the entire staff think it over, I'll do that, too.

But, because nearly all the time, I'm the one the morts deal with, they most often feel that I am the 'unresonable' one, or that I am the 'hardarse'.

What they don't realize, is that while I will do the punishments, mine are almost always easier to take than Chalgyrs.

For the most part, I don't think we're any different as IMP's than two people who are not in a relationship.

problem is not with the couple I think, but with the dude running it/making your life hell.

unless you're very annoying and brought this onto yourself.

just delete and move on =]

I play on a MUD that is run by a couple. They are rather nice and pleasant...when they are around lol but for the most part I haven't had any bad dealings with them. Also I have muded with the owners of the mud for about 5 years or so. But I feel that whether you are in a relationship or not that if something happens to one person of the staff then all staff should know about it. But I'm sure I'm getting off topic now lol

I'm one half of a couple running a mud. We both try and be fair, in most cases I'm the one who deal with mortal issues as I'm usually the person who's visable. This means good, bad, you usually end up talking to me. I try and be fair, but some people get the short end of the stick if I'm having a bad day or they're unusually upset/obnoxious/problematic.

I know there are people who aren't comfortable with the two of us running the mud, because of the reason you mentioned, they talk to one of us about the other, and the that person is invariably going to find out. However, the problem I've encountered more is that they only talk to one of us, especially for ideas, and so the other person is left out. Usually though, with problems, they'll talk to the first person that's available.

I wouldn't say that all couples who run muds, will screw you over. But on the mud I now admin for, in the past we have had couples form on the mud with in the immortal/admin staff. And it's been a hellish nightmare! I was a player on the mud when I first started, and all I saw was a 'someone' talking alot of crap and being a real pain in the back side. So I called this 'someone' a not nice word.... Well that was the dumbest possiable thing I did, all of a sudden I get teleported into the room with one of the imps and this someone, and I get chewed out for calling an immortal a not nice name and blah blah blah... And I was so glad that this retarted immortal was wizi so I never knew it was an immortal I was speaking to.

We also after that couple left, had another couple form. And it was pretty close to the same thing. The one was a pain the butt and made peoples lifes a living hell, and the other one would aid in kick anyones butt who complained about how the other acted.

Now since I've been an admin their, none of this has happened. Mainly for the fact that betweeen the two couples we've lost so much player base, and immortal staff that we're down to a skeleton crew. But we've also had some really nice couples, that had done tone of good things. So it's not the couple setting that is bad. It's just the people that are bad.

I've had more bad experiences than good with couples running or even staffing on MUDs together.

I think the biggest problem is that, sure, while there should be open lines in some cases, there should also be some separations between staffers in others. Without that kind of freedom then you are going to end up with one or the other being overshadowed in a lot of cases where they shouldn't be.

I'm sure there are some couples where the individuals in the couples know when to just back off, but I haven't seen a whole lot of it in my time.

Nick

My husband and I run Twisted Kingdoms, and I have seen a bit of what you're talking about, players talking to him rather than me. Although, since I'm the coder and 'head wizard', it's a lot easier, since anything dealing with the tough issues gets bounced immediately to me, and people figure out pretty quickly who they need to be talking to. But then you get into the issue of some players trying to play us against each other. Or worse, telling him to tell me how to run the place.

Its called "good cop, bad cop". Youre the bad cop. Work it in your advantage. :)

The only problem I have with muds run by couples is when one partner is an immortal/implementor/administrator simply by right of being in a relationship with the other.

I have been a builder on two different muds that were run by couples.

One was ok, but the mud itself lacked direction so I didn't stay long. The male was the one running the show, and the female was in a position of power by default. It didn't hurt anybody's feelings and she never really did anything except chat.

The other is still open and appears to be running well enough, but I couldn't find my nitch in that group. As with most muds, there was a bit of bad politics which was amplified by the couple's personal interaction. Yes, the female was known as moody but the male was the one to really be scared of. After having been on staff for a month I could not handle the amount of tension that occurred at least every other day, mostly based on the female's mood. I never personally upset her or anyone else and she was very polite to me, but to see her chewing out so many others over little things on the immtalk, or worse, to be transferred into a discussion as a witness was horrible. I knew she was capable of being nice. I watched her run off several staff members during my month there, so I decided to cut my losses and not end up a target down the road.

I have tried to get my wife interested in building for my MUD, but only because she is extremely good at creative writing. I know she will ask for favors (like good eq for her mortal character), but I also know that she would not do anything that would offend anyone else (not even to tell a telemarketer to buzz off, she lets them finish their pitch). So basically I am saying that it is entirely situational, but power by relationship is normally a bad thing because it isn't truely earned.

Personally, I just hand the phone to my fiancee when telemarketers call..lol As for the couple owning mud thing, my fiancee and I do, as I am sure some of you know by some of my posts. We try to keep things evenly based, but I usually turn out being the badarse even though we are not open to players yet. The staff knows though that they can go to both of us when problems arise. They lean more towards him though, because he is more trusting then I. All in all though things run pretty smooth.

Yes, but you earn your keep don't you? That is not getting the position just because you are the significant other. Those are the situations that should be avoided.

I had started a MUD once with a few friends, where we were all going to be equal Implementors. But once we were all set up, the rest of us were demoted to level 59, while one girl stayed at 60. When we asked why, her boyfriend (also level 59) said that it would be best because she is the most level-headed. He, on the other hand, had the temper and personality of a troll, so we knew that the arrangement wouldn't work out because he would have all this influence on the level 60 girl because they were 'dating.'

I think MUD's run by couples is very capable of working. Inquisition was run by a married couple, and was an extremely good MUD. But I also feel you should have a mediator or two up there with them.

Yes I do earn my keep, by advertising for staff, building, and just answering questions if I can.

I am The -male- Xeno is talking about. We never said you could report to one of us in confidence, keeping secrets from eachother in a relationship is silly as well as suicidal. Next, like one of the other posters here said There are two people that run things...I am mr 'bad cop' I handle most player disputes and whatnot because i have the time whereas my Significant Other is going to school and does not have the time. Yeah i might delete your character or drop you a few levels for punishment but i never ban or anything like that. Now if you make Rose (my SO) angry she goes straight to vape (forced deletion) or Banning. I am by far the easier one to deal with. I did not want to become an implementor on our game, she pretty much forced it upon me because she did not want to argue with the players and whatnot (which she would tell you if you asked). He says i made his life hell, but that is also not true. Over and over we trusted him and even made him Headbuilder twice but each time he stabbed us in the back. Then he actually had the nerve to post about it here...*shrug* If you dont like me thats fine, anyone being the rule enforcer knows that the players rarely like you. But dont take it elsewhere thats just silly.

Im responding to this a little late but this point has to get accross. It is THEIR mud. THEY can run it any way they like. They LET you play a mud that they spend their free time to create and run. Players of muds seem to think more and more often that its their mud. But the immortals DO NOT work for the players. They work for the implementors, who are in charge of the mud. If you think he gave you hell, hmmm what should you do....maybe not play there anymore?

You wouldn't believe just how often we have to reiterate that with players on our mud. We took time, nearly 60+ hours per week, for nearly 4 years, to bring the players the mud we have produced. We spent the money on the hosting, we built the area's (we, meaning my husband, I, and all of our immortals and builders), and we did the code.

If you don't like the way a mud is run, it's unfortunate, however, in the end, it isn't the players mud, but the admin's mud.

This goes beyond just MU* Couples and much more into general administrative ethics, and I'd have to say I disagree.


I've been a staff remember before (usually general build staff, from starter level to head administration), I've paid for /part/ of a host for a time, and been on my share of 'beginning' MU*s that are not yet even open to the public. I've also been a player for about 3 years longer than the first time I staffed.

With that in mind, I'd like to say that that entire mindset is complete garbage. To say that players aren't an important commodity to a Multi-User anything is about as nonsensical as writing a story without words.

The immortals don't work for the players, they don't work for /anyone/. Just like the players, an immortal can pack up and leave on a whim if they'd like, in most cases they aren't getting paid.

Players are what actually make a MUD, otherwise these places wouldn't actually open to the /public/. There'd be no need for promotion boards, advertisements, or even a MudConnector. They can run it any way they like, and they do, but if someone decides to run a MUD without players it's not going to be a Multi-User Dungeon at all. It's going to be a Personal-User Dungeon.

If players see that there is a problem with your game, then you can either address and fix it, or they /can/ leave. Outright saying that you don't care what problems a player might have with a game is going to get a whole lot of the latter, and you're not going to have a MUD for long, unless you like coding things for people to interact with and then just forgetting about them.

Nick

This is a very interesting topic. I currently run a MUSH with my SO. The mush itself has been around for three years but this current theme is only about 6 or so months old. Up to that time it was really just a hang out place for me and my BF to meet and chat and for a few of our friends to come on and hang out.

To address the initial concern of Xeno, I'm not sure how things work at the MU* in question, however, at my MUSH not much is said to me in confidence where the MUSH is concerned. Running a MUSH is just like running any other business or enterprise. Each member of the staff has to be well informed so that they can make well informed decisions. I have noticed that a great deal of players partake in what could be termed as 'splitting'. They may bring a concern to one staff member and if not satisfied with the response of this one bring up the same concern in a different way to a different staff member. Where a player comes to me for personal advice dealing with some RL issue, this is taken in confidence and not mentioned to any other members of my staff. However, if it is an issue that concerns the MUSH, then the staff needs to be aware of it so that it can be handled appropriately in my absense. The larger issues are discussed with the Admin staff in private even before a decision is rendered.

As for the importance of players on a MUSH. If it is your aim to make something entertaining, then you do intend for people to play it. However, it does not mean that those who join eventually are indeed your target audience. Also, many players have forgotten that they are recieving a service free of charge and it is a voluntary service. Just as they may leave when they get good and ready, they may be denied the service as well. Generally, I'm noticing it is the nature of players which are changing. When I started MU*ing in 1994, it appeared to be a far different audience/player-base than there is now. Many of the players now lack the maturity to understand that what makes a MUSH/MUD most enjoyable is when they consider the enjoyability of their fellow players. Many are only concerned with themselves and often end up in conflicts as a result of selfishness. The problem isn't that players think the MUSH is 'theirs' or they own it. The problem is that they don't. They believe it is a service to them they are owed. Not a world that they own and that they are responsible for the enjoyability just as much as the administration.

-T'Pesh

Hiya,

My husband and I both MUD and both have been a part of an administration where we were considerably high enough of a level to have alot of input into the MUD. We have very different ideals when it comes to mudding, though. I let him handle things by himself, and vice versa. The only time we confer about stuff online with each other is if we're in a meeting. We do discuss things, but we have the understanding that neither person is to approach any third party that is involved. Alot of people believe that just because we're couples, that means we'll both agree with each other on everything. That isn't the case, nor has it ever been :)

I feel that MUDs run by couples should have boundaries set out by all of the members of the staff...not just by the couple themselves. This includes married couples. It ensures alot more fairness in the happenings of the MUD, whether it be in the mortal or immortal ranks. Anything that's brought up with the confidentiality flag should be kept as that, confidential.